HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning And Zoning Board - Minutes - 06/06/1994 (2)PLANNING i ZONING BOARD
MEETING MINUTES
June 6, 1994
Gerry Horak, Council Liaison
Ron Phillips, Staff support Liaison
The June 6, 1994, meeting of the Planning and Zoning Board was
called to order at 6:30 p.m. in the Council Chambers of City Hall
West, 300 Laporte Avenue, Fort Collins, Colorado. Board members
present included Vice -Chair Jan Cottier, Members Jennifer
Fontane, James Klataske, and Bernie Strom, Lloyd Walker and
Sharon Winfree. Chair Rene' Clements was absent.
Staff members present included Interim Planning Director Ron
Phillips, Deputy City Attorney Paul Eckman, Joe Frank, Basil
Hamdan, Mike Herzig, Steve Olt, Ted Shepard, Tom Vosburg, Kirsten
Whetstone, and Carolyn Worden.
AGENDA REVIEW
Mr. Ron Phillips, Interim Planning Director read the agenda
review items. Consent Agenda: Item 1. 5 Senses Daycare PUD -
Preliminary and Final, #23-94, Item 2. Resolution PZ94-7 Easement
Vacation. Discussion Agenda: Item 3. Harmony Market PUD, 6th
Filing, Red Robin - Final, #54-87T, Item 4. Amendment to the
Harmony Corridor Plan and Land Development Guidance System, #29-
90A, Item 5. Falcon Ridge PUD - Preliminary, #2-94F; Item 6.
Indian Hills Village PUD - Final, #81-93A and Item 7. Fossil
Creek Estates PUD - Final (continued at the request of the
applicant).
CONSENT AGENDA
Item 1. 5 Senses Daycare PUD - Preliminary and Final, #23-94 and
Item 2. Resolution PZ94-Easement Vacation.
Member Klataske made the motion to accept Items 1 and 2 of the
Consent Agenda.
Member Winfree seconded the motion.
Motion passed 6-0.
Item 3. Harmony Market PUD, 6th Filing, Red Robin - Final.
Mr. Ted Shepard, Project Planner, read the staff report and
recommendations. The conditions of approval have been satisfied
and staff recommends approval of the PUD. There were slides
presented.
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Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 2
There was discussion among Board Members and Staff with regard to
brick color compatibility, and landscaping methods. These items
were approved by staff.
Craig Cohen, 7555 E. Hampden Ave., Denver, CS Architects,
reported that the neon was taken off the building. They would be
using all brick veneer to match the existing shopping center.
No citizen participation.
Member Strom moved approval of the Harmony Market PUD, 6th
Filing, Red Robin, Final, i54-87T.
Member Pontane seconded the motion.
Vice -Chair Cottier said that the Plan was an improvement and
there was something good accomplished by postponing the final at
the last meeting. The appearance would fit in better at the
center.
Motion carried 6-0.
Mr. Joe Frank, Assistant Planning Director, gave the staff report
stating that since the last P&Z meeting on May 23, the staff has
had an opportunity to review the comments of the Board and meet
with the public. They have spent time discussing the changes and
how those would be implemented through the LDGS. The product of
this analysis is a revised ordinance that staff believes would be
more effective and would address the concerns expressed at the May
23 Board meeting.
Mr. Frank also stated in response to the Board suggestion for a 60-
day review period, the planning staff has begun arrangements for
holding two informal meetings in the next 60 days to assess
interest in making changes to land use policies contained in the
Harmony Corridor Plan. An initial meeting is currently being
scheduled with the original Harmony Corridor Steering Committee.
A follow-up meeting will be held within the next 60 days including
other parties, comprising neighborhood organizations, property
owners and other interested groups. The objectives of this citizen
participation process would be to prepare a list of concerns and
issues with regard to future land uses in the corridor. This list
will compiled with a report and presented to the City Council for
their direction on how to proceed. This report clarifies Policy
LU-5, the Harmony Corridor Plan, the future regional shopping
centers along Harmony Road (to be located along two arterial
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June 6, 1994
Page 3
streets). In the Harmony Corridor, two arterial streets include,
College Avenue, JFK Parkway, when extended, Lemay Avenue,
Timberline Road and County Road 9. It would also eliminate some
ambiguous wording in Policy LU-4, which states that 11 ..all retail
and commercial development shall be located in shopping centers."
Staff believes that restricting the location of community regional
shopping centers to corners of two arterial streets is consistent
with the goal of the Harmony Corridor Plan to discourage strip
commercial development. Other interpretations that expand the
number of shopping centers is not consistent with this goal.
Mr. Frank stated that the second purpose is to clarify the right of
the City to establish locational and land use standards for the
purpose of implementing and interpreting the provisions of the
LDGS. Staff believes that although the City already has the right
to do this, staff believes it would be preferable and clearer if
this right was established in the LDGS.
Mr. Frank said the third part of the ordinance establishes LU-4 and
LU-5, as mandatory locational standards in the implementation of
the LDGS in regard to properties in the Harmony Corridor. This
. change elevates the policies from simply being advisory to being
mandatory.
The fourth point of the ordinance is that staff believes there is
an inconsistency in the criteria of the community regional shopping
center land use category in the LDGS with the proposed amendment
LU-5, or specifically Criterion B of the Land Use Category of the
LDGS could be interpreted to encourage the location of Community/
Regional Shopping Centers at collector/arterials street
intersections which would be in conflict with LU-5. The proposed
amendment deletes the references that it is to be located at
collector/arterial intersections.
The Planning and Zoning Board and the City staff have received many
letters in regard to the proposed amendment. The positions
expressed in these letters and phone calls have been varied. There
has been considerable agreement that the intent of the Harmony
Corridor Plan to prevent Harmony Road from turning into another
College Avenue or Mulberry Street was a good one and should be
implemented. There were a number of suggestions as to how this was
to be accomplished, for example, allowing development only in
certain areas and restricting further commercial development along
the corridor.
Mr. Frank said the discussions raised more issues than are being
resolved by the draft ordinance. There is, however, a real sense
of urgency of having a clear definition of location of Community/
Regional Shopping Centers along Harmony Road. The staff agrees
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June 6, 1994
Page 4
there are other issues that need to be resolved, these issues will
be addressed in their own time and according to their own process.
He described an issue that not only impacts how the Harmony
Corridor Develops, but how the rest of the community develops and
that is the subject of "big box" retailers. In the next six months
staff will be reviewing and developing land use policies and design
criteria for this new retail use in our community. In the next IS
to 24 months, the City will be going through an extensive citizen
participation process to update the City's Comprehensive Plan which
will include looking at the City's goals, objective and policies
for commercial development throughout the community. The reason
these are mentioned is that the ordinance recommended tonight is
not seen by staff as a panacea for all the issues or concerns.
However, the adoption of the Ordinance is an important and needed
step; for this reason staff is recommending that the Planning and
Zoning Board recommend to the City Council it be adopted. The City
Council will consider on June 7, 1994.
Vice -Chair Cottier asked Mr. Eckman a procedural question. Since
this was voted on at the last meeting, does the Board have to vote
to reconsider this item or is it a different item?
Mr. Eckman said it was a different item, although it is the same
topic.
Member Strom asked if staffs main concern was strip commercial and
that Harmony Corridor not become a solid commercial strip? Is the
intent of the ordinance aimed at that issue?
Mr. Frank said the plan's two major goals in terms of commercial.
development are to prevent urban sprawl and maintain opportunities
for major employers to develop in the corridor. The intent is to
clarify existing policy that deals with major high intensity land
uses, define what the term means and what major street
intersections are. The intent is to discourage strip commercial
development on Harmony Road but also to maintain opportunities for
major employment uses like the ones that have occurred (NCR,
Hewlett-Packard).
Member Strom commented that the intent of the Board two weeks ago
was clear to have neighborhood -developer interaction with the staff
for 60 days before amendments to the ordinances were considered.
By specifying that we are talking about arterial streets, that
major community/regional shopping centers be located on Harmony to
be at intersections at arterial streets, he was trying to reconcile
that with what was in the LDGS for Community/Regional Shopping
Review, which basically says they are given extra credit for not
taking their access off arterial streets.
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June 6, 1994
Page 5
Mr. Frank said he didn't think there was a conflict in allowing
Community/Regional Shopping Centers to be at the corner of two
arterials and having access off .of non -arterials. One is
transportation related in terms of discouraging direct access off
of arterials. It would work as it has in other areas in the
community.
Member Strom said there will be a different kind of problem in
terms of traffic with the proposed configuration of traffic
interaction. He pointed out why he felt there needed to be more
discussion with regard to this topic before enacting changes, to
have the kinds of discussions that brings out these nuances and
issues before we make the changes rather than afterward.
Member Walker also discussed Harmony Market and asked if it would
meet the existing criteria and would that prove the point or
disprove the point of the ordinance change?
Mr. Frank said that it does demonstrate the point that it is at the
intersection of two arterials and still have primary access off a
• non -arterial street. Primary access would be off of oakridge Drive
and Boardwalk Drive which are both collector streets.
Member Walker pointed out that the size of the centers can be so
large that, in fact, does impact a collector street.
Mr. Frank said that the plan is not clear in terms of discouraging
strip commercial along the Harmony Corridor. Concern now would be
to control development. There are other issues as well that will
be addressed further.
Mr. Ron Phillips said that another point that is ancillary to what
Mr. Frank brought out is that there are probably more types of
collectors streets and in the future this could be more clearly
defined: residential, commercial and perhaps a combination of these
two. The staff's recommendation is to go ahead and fix the things
that can be fixed now that do not change the intent of the Plan.
Those things that take more time will be fixed as the plan is
processed.
Vice -Chair Cottier asked if there was notification to the Golden
Meadows Group that was formed in response to this issue, or of
developers that this would be discussed this evening.
Mr. Frank said a letter was sent last week to property owners at
signalized intersections along Harmony Corridor, the involved
• neighborhood organizations, former Harmony Corridor Steering
Committee, another Harmony Corridor mailing list. He said staff
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June 6, 1994
Page 6
met last Wednesday night with the newly formed Harmony Neighborhood
Organization to discuss, not only this plan and changes but other
issues that affect their neighborhood.
Member Walker asked if this is a refinement in staff's thinking of
what was debated two weeks ago and superseding them?
Mr. Frank said they are refinements and Planning staff and the
Attorney's office discussed implementation. The changes in LU-5
and the changes which establish the policies as standards are the
new parts. The King Sooper's proposal is considered a
"neighborhood shopping center" and remains unaffected.
Member Strom asked why the term "compact" commercial shopping
centers was not being discussed?
Mr. Eckman said that term was not clear enough to keep in the
language and did not have a good definition for "compact". Staff
decided to delete it and regulate the design of a shopping centers
through the LDGS. All shopping centers under the LDGS will be
seeking conservation of space and staff didn't feel it needed to be
stated, especially with respect to Section 3, where a standard is
being developed and trying to eliminating ambiguities in the
standards.
CITIZEN INPUT.
David Everitt - 2413 Brookwood - Everitt Companies - He stated
that part of the reason people may not be present tonight is that
it was understood that there would be 60 days to interact to think
it through for the code. He thought this proposal tonight
circumvented that decision of the Board two weeks ago. If there
are traffic or other issues involved, there is a process in place
to evaluate the projects impacts on traffic and neighborhoods.
Specifying certain land uses at certain intersections "carte blanc"
would be circumventing the process and not allow us to evaluate
each project as it comes in. It, therefore, handcuffs the City and
its Planning Board firm evaluating the merits of these projects on
their own.
Mr. Everitt had a question as to the definition of "commercial" as
it relates to LU-4. Much of the land that has been purchased along
the corridor by different users and developers have been purchased
under the assumptions that policies and procedures.and guidelines
in place are valid and to radically deviate from that, could affect
the value of the land and some uses that are currently being
projected. Another question was related to Section 2, amending the
code of the City where the City shall have the right to establish
general, locational and land use standards. When does this apply
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June 6, 1994
Page 7
city-wide? When implemented, does this not circumvent the system
already in place apart from the LDGS to establish locational and
land use criteria? If the language is implemented into the City
Code, how would that be processed? He asked about Section 3
"commercial development to be located in shopping centers", does
that refer to regional, and neighborhood shopping centers? Would
that preclude stand alone retail or commercial uses such as
convenient stores, etc.? What about encouraging walking and biking
to shopping centers?
Mr. Wayne Schrader - Asked about notification guidelines for an
issue of this magnitude. He said his letter was post -marked June
1 and received it on Friday, June 3. He spoke to a number of
people on Friday that would be directly affected. They had not
received their notification. He felt it was short notification.
He encouraged more time to study it more fully. He asked about
smaller commercial parcels that are not on Harmony, what will
happen to this type of land use?
Mr. Bill Elliott - resident of Golden Meadows and works at
Comlinear in the Oakridge Business Park. He believed the intent of
• the Harmony Corridor Plan was clear. He read the purpose which was
to explore "how to attract businesses and industries that will
provide a strong economic base and be compatible with community
values. The plan focuses on a land use pattern of urban design
that protects community values." Lost in discussion is the
importance of the transportation link of Harmony in the community.
He believed the proposal would change the influx of traffic from
other areas of town on other streets and felt it wasn't the
objective of the plan. He talked about some of the existing
businesses that are models for the corridor's future. The point of
the plan is to limit strip/commercial and encourage employers to
locate.
Mr. Tim Dolan - 4212 New Hampdon Court - He reported the
neighborhood would be present at the Council Meeting tomorrow in
force. It is in support of this revision with a "proviso". He
said it isn't worded as strongly as it needs to be. There is
question about the appropriateness of amount and type of retail
development along Harmony Road and will not affect his neighborhood
concerns for King Soopers development.
Larry Stroud - Generally in support of the Harmony Corridor Plan.
There are some concerns with regard not to intent, but to language.
There is a "big box" concern on Harmony Road. He appealed to the
Board to not sacrifice the smaller user and smaller intersections
in trying to immediately solve a community concern with the "big
box" retailers. There are some specific retail plans that may not
be able to be developed because of the wording. He requested more
work be put into language.
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 8
Bill Vos - 2024 E. Harmony Road - Owner of the Harmony filling
station - He said if the proposal went through, it would
definitely help him financially. However, he was not in favor of
it because any development would have to have access and easement
roads required and will be coming out on Harmony and felt it was a
mute point.
Les Kaplin - 1067 Sailor's Reef - His concern was that the
ordinance was not comprehensive enough which might foreclose on
more creative solutions in the future. More forethought and input
from the community needs to be made. He felt the 60-day period
would provide that time needed. He felt this approach to change
was inappropriate. He suggested defining the problem with all
broader community members and limitations, ramifications, etc.
Dan Eckles - The PUD process, to his understanding, was to fill in
property, allowing flexibility and design to give people the
opportunity to bring forth their own ideas of what could be used on
the properties, creating the highest and best use of properties
throughout the community. Blanket legislation for this kind of
property would create a lot of restrictions and cause properties to
never develop.
CITIZEN INPUT CLOSED.
Vice -Chair Cottier asked staff to answer questions of citizens. Is
this just intent for the Harmony Corridor or city-wide? What is
the process of establishing locational and land use standards? If
all retail and commercial are to be in shopping centers, does that
preclude stand-alone commercial? How does that affect
accessibility to the neighborhood? What happens to small
commercial parcels that are left not at the intersections of two
arterials (what use is appropriate for them)?
Mr. Frank said defining what is retail is simple but for commercial
it is more complicated. The C-Commercial Zone in the Zoning
Ordinance has a wide open list of uses and includes uses that are
not intended to be in the Harmony Corridor. There are pros and
cons of letting the definition of land uses come about as they are
applied for. There has been an attempt to redefine "commercial" as
auto related and road side commercial, plus retail stores,
convenience stores, grocery stores, equipment rental, personal
service shops, hotels/motels, standard restaurants, indoor
theaters, indoor theaters, recreation uses, and similar uses could
be set as determined by the Planning and Zoning.
Mr. Frank stated in terms of Section 2, the City having the right
to establish general locational and design standards, the intent is
to allow the City, in the future, to establish land use standards
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June 6, 1994
Page 9
for any part of the City, if they felt it was necessary. However,
as each policy is adopted, it would be determined to applied to a
specific area or a community -wide. In Section 3, it is specific
for properties in the Harmony Corridor. The adoption process would
remain as is. Any future standards will be adopted by ordinance.
Vice -Chair Cottier asked if the statement that "all commercial and
retail be located in shopping centers" precludes stand-alone and
what does that leave for the small commercial parcels that exist
now?
Mr. Frank said that each individual project will be considered on
its own merits. The way it is written now and what the policies of
the plan say is that "commercial uses shall be in compact shopping
centers." It raises an issue that there is an intent, although it
is not mentioned in the policy statements elsewhere, that there be
free-standing uses. It makes sense to have accessory uses to
employment centers. This will need to be looked into in the next
60 days. Under this ordinance, there is still opportunity for
other kinds of shopping to occur along Harmony Road, for example,
neighborhood shopping centers, one neighborhood convenience, also
light industrial, residential, or office, etc. It makes it
Is difficult for free-standing retail with the current wording.
Member Fontane said that community the Board is looking at changing
the existing policies because values are changing. The value of
property is affected by these changes. It is a good move because
it reflects what we as a community feel is important, if we use old
policies to lay the land out, the value may not be measured
correctly rather than a revised policy. She did not see it as
circumventing the current system and it is an important part of the
continuing modification of updating our Plan. This is just one
piece and there needs to be more round table discussion. The
citizen input two weeks ago was in favor of stronger guidelines in
this area.
Member Walker stated that he wasn't at the meeting two weeks ago,
and he felt that the Board was making a recommendation to the City
Council with refined ideas of two weeks ago. There will be more
discussion tomorrow at the City Council meeting. He believed that
the Harmony Corridor document presents a vision, somewhere
employers can locate rather than strip -commercial, it is time to
revise working documents and supports the notion of change. He
reflected that there was more work to be done. He thought it was
good to define with new wording and was in agreement supporting the
changes. He felt it was appropriate to have the 60-day public
input to review this.
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Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 10
Member Strom said he thought the Board discussed two weeks ago
that, an important piece of the process of change has to do with
people on different sides of the issue sitting down at a table and
talking back and forth to each other. Recognizing through that
process that whenever there are changes to land use regulations, or
planning issues, transportation, air quality, alternative modes of
transportation, etc., they are all entwined. The best product is
arrived at, for the future of our community, through sitting down
at the table, hammering out these ideas, disagreeing with each
other, arguing with respect to fine details before it is written
into ordinance. He believed it was missing in this proposal. The
notice seemed late, there were some meetings, but not the round-
table format. He believed that he could not support the changes at
this time without the roundtable discussions.
Member Klataske supported the ideas expressed why Member Strom. He
stated there were some good changes that have come about in two
weeks, there will be even more in the next 45 days, but to push
this revised ordinance as a "stop -gap measure" is not what the
intent was of the Board to have 60-days review with the community.
Member Winfree said she waited to hear comments from the Board
members who were present on May 23, she was somewhat confused about
the issue because the 60-days was to provide opportunity for public
process. She was not ready to support the changes proposed to City
Council.
Vice -Chair Cottier said that the language proposed have problems
with clarity and definition that need to be ironed out, she had
concern with what the implications were to small parcels that are
left. She said she reviewed all of the old documents (1990 and
1991) of the Harmony Corridor Plan and she said the intent of the
Plan originally had policy statements that limited retail and
commercial development east of Timberline, the neighbors were in
favor but it later got dropped from the plan. Later comments
showed favor of the restrictions on commercial and retail
development. If that wording was in there, we wouldn't be faced
with the problems we are seeing and we would clearly not have the
hypothetical 15 shopping center being able to exist east of
Timberline. What she saw as the original intent was not to limit
to two major arterials, she did not find that in earlier documents.
If there is concern about strip -commercial developing as on
College, it would be much easier to establish distance restrictions
between shopping centers, rather than saying they have to be at two
arterials. She felt it inappropriate to apply the changes on
Harmony Corridor to the entire city, as in changing the point chart
of the LDGS.
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June 6, 1994
Page 11
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Member Strom moved to reaffirm the Boardls position made two weeks
ago.
Member Winfree seconded the motion.
Motion carried 5-1, with Fontane voting in the negative.
Item 5 Falcon Ridge Pup - Preliminary. !2 94F
Member Sharon Winfree had a conflict of interest and was not
present during the hearing.
Mr. Steve Olt, Project Planner, read the staff report with the
requested variance to solar orientation ordinance. Staff
recommends approval.
Mr. Peter Sherman and Mr. Ed Lawler of Sandcreek Associates,
presented aerial slides of the area to show why it is compatible
with the surrounding area and why it provides a good transition
from College Avenue to Highway 1 into the County and larger acreage
areas. There are a half dozen houses on Ford Lane and one lot is
vacant. Rimrock is a 10-acre parcel with a density of 3.1 acres,
which is almost exactly the same density they are proposing for the
development directly across the street. He showed a slide from the
south where Ford Lane was located. The mobile home park, Valley
View Avenue have a similar density to their development. another
slide showed Spaulding Lane, Highway 1 and College Avenue. There
has been some concern about a traffic bottleneck at Spaulding Lane
and Highway 1. There is a stop light at Highway 1 and Highway 287.
There is a rather short neck between the Highway 1 and Spaulding
Lane. It is the applicant's understanding that there is a project
slated to re-route Highway 1 farther around the west down 287. The
neck that is connecting Highway 287 and Spaulding will be abandoned
and Spaulding Lane will go up Highway 1 and intersect the new
section of Highway 1 which should relieve a great deal of the
traffic congestion that results at that intersection at this time.
There is a fairly sizable mobile home park on the west of Highway
287, transitioning from a higher density mobile home, standard 3
plus units to the acre, then out into the country. We feel we have
a compatible project and that it provides a good transition. We
will be glad to entertain any questions.
CITIZEN INPUT.
Ingrid Simpson - resides in the Northeast area of Fort Collins -
She represented the Northeast Neighborhood Coalition. This area is
within the larger area that is in the process of being studied.
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 12
The Coalition has submitted a petition to City Council to h ave an
interim look at the existing inter -governmental agreement, which is
overdue for review. This project, Falcon Ridge, is a critical
example of a study that needs to be done before major developments
are allowed to occur. The documents that will be sent to City
Council were given to the Planning and Zoning Board and it has
already been given to the County.
The project needs to be downsized similar to the Pheasant Ridge
Subdivision which is already annexed. Rather than using the issue
that these will be compatible with the existing Rimrock
Subdivision, this does not allow, in its present form, a transition
area and does not appear to be in the spirit of the original
governmental agreement as it was drafted between the City and the
County. It is time to address this "leap -frog" development
concept.
Just because the Land Development Guidance System (LDGS) promotes
this type of density, it should not mean it is always adaptable to
all areas, especially this area north of the major city
development, which is all appearing in the south. The Northeast
has already developed some unique characteristics. Some of the
areas are 30 plus years old. Even though the densities appear
adequate at a first glance, a closer look will show that this
project will actually cause a major impact on the existing area,
especially in view of the already overloaded access on Terry Lake
Road, Country Club Road and Lemay.
We need to slow down and examine, just as we are doing with the
Harmony Corridor, what really is in the best interest of the
established neighborhoods, rather than apply the same criteria as
is used in the much dense uses further south. This area is unique,
having been developed for so long.
There are large tracts of land that have opened up in the south for
development. That is not available in the north, there are pockets
as was shown on the map. It is one of the more critical areas to
be carefully studied. Just because there may be, down the road, a
promise of a by-pass or a change in the traffic flow, it is totally
going to depend on how much money is available from the State. If
any of you have worked on the express way or by-pass projects,
historically, a piece of it is done and money runs out. If the
project is passed in its existing form, this project is just going
to be a nightmare for the people that live there and also for those
people who have purchased their homes.
Mr. Jerry Manning - resident of the Rimrock Subdivision - he is a
member of the Northeast Neighborhood Coalition. He addressed the
traffic and safety issues as they relate to the planned Falcon
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June 6, 1994
Page 13
Ridge Development as they impact families on Ford Lane. His
concern was the traffic that moves east and north out of the
subdivision onto Country Club Road. A direct access from the
Falcon Ridge to Country Club Road is desired by the current
residents there; and talking to the developers, he believed that
was their original plan as well. The advantages would be to
maintain the integrity and independence of the Rimrock Subdivision,
would also reduce safety and environmental hazards to the
established neighborhood residents, and would be a cost savings to
the developer not to have to upgrade the County Road to City
standards. Another point of issue is with the traffic impact study
prepared by Eugene Capola for Sandcreek Associates. Some of the
critical statistical data is incorrect. Some of the assumptions
and estimates pertaining to traffic direction and growth are
questionable at best. These errors would invalidate any
conclusions made form that report.
Mr. Manning said that Ford Lane was estimated at 100 vehicles per
day, on page 3, and would like to have the resource named --where
those kinds of estimates come from. The report also states that it
is under stop sign control and it is not, nor are there 100
. vehicles using that street each day. In fact, using the report's
own trip generation of 9.5 trips per home per day times the five
existing homes on Ford Lane would equal 47.5 trips per day, not the
100 trips stated in their report. There is much less traffic. he
lives at the end of Ford Lane and, besides the traffic he generates
from his house, only a few cars may come his way by mistake. he
calculated only 28.85 vehicles per day. By the reports of higher
use of traffic on Ford Lane, the data indicates a much lower impact
on the development, when in reality, it would have a tremendous
impact, in fact, an additional 300-350 trips per day. Using a high
estimate of 50 vehicles per day, currently on Ford Lane, would mean
a 500 percent increase in traffic on Ford Lane alone. He could not
live with that, nor could his family.
Mr. Manning took another exception to the traffic report. It was
estimated another 10 percent increase in traffic on Country Club
Road and Spaulding Lane between now and 1997. He wanted the source
of the findings as well. The Falcon Ridge development alone will
add nearly 300 vehicle trips per day on each of the roads, based on
their data that 583 trips will be generated from the 60 homes on
that proposed development and half of those trips would be going on
each of those roads daily, according to their report. The increase
on Spaulding Lane, which they designate now at 500 vehicles per
day, would go up to almost 800 vehicle trips per day, or a 60
percent increase. On Country Club Road, the current estimate is
2,000 per day and another 200 would bring it up to a 15 percent
• increase. These increases are without adding any other new
development sin the area over the next few years.
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 14
Mr. Manning concluded by asking that, with these discrepancies
noted, he requested the City put a hold on this development until
a new unbiased study is prepared and submitted for review. he said
he would appreciate an opportunity to respond if there were
questions of the City Traffic Department about the numbers he
reported.
Sharon Housely - 2105 Sunstone Drive - She read from a prepared
statement. On Wednesday, December 15, 1993, the Sandcreek
Associates presented a proposal for the Falcon Ridge Subdivision at
a Neighborhood Informational meeting. At that meeting, the
developers wrote down many, many questions and told the group they
would find out the answers to those questions and have a second
informational meeting. Two major concerns she addressed were:
1. Would ELCO Water District be able to provide enough water
for the 60 proposed homes without affecting water
pressure of existing residences?
2. Can Tavelli Elementary, whose enrollment is already 625
students, handle the enrollment from these additional
homes.
Ms. Houseley said she would like to go on record that the
neighborhood had not received any answers to their questions and
would still like to have a response by the developers.
Mr. Tim Carney - 2101 Sandstone Drive - Rimrock Subdivision - He
has written a letter to the Board regarding his thoughts about
Falcon Ridge. He stated it is the toughest development to get
clear answers on because of the nature of the inter -governmental
agreement, the access to the highway and the improvements to the
roads. He has been referred to the City, County and the State and
no one is really answering his questions. He said he could use the
same slide to disprove the buffer area the developers showed a
transition. He could take the same slide and take the opposite
approach. he further stated if the area is known there is a
geologic terrace, there are irrigation ditches, there are lakes.
It is a world away and the density of the surrounding area,
including Rimrock, including everything else around, it is no where
near the proposed density of this development. His main concern
about his, as stated in his letter are.
1. The density is too high.
2. The proposed access is inadequate and unfair to the
existing residents.
3. There is a significant lack of infrastructure to support
growth in this corridor and
4. Public safety would be negatively impacted, children
going to school, roller bladers, etc.
• Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 15
Mr. Carney brought out a point on highway access. he had spoken to
George Rowe who is the Regional Design Engineer at the State of
Colorado Department of Engineering for the Highway 1 project.
According to Mr. Rowe, the realignment of Highway 1 is still in the
preliminary stages, it is not a "done deal". It is proposed to go
to bid sometime in the next year. There is no inclusion for
pedestrian access to the North College Business Corridor as yet in
the preliminary access plan. If there is an increase in people,
they need to safely access the North College Corridor, otherwise,
the Country Club Road will be utilized, which is already an unsafe
situation.
Mr. Carney said he would like to see this development access
Country Club Road directly. According to Mr. Rowe, the Department
of Transportation, a 30 mph design speed requires a 200-foot
stopping site distance. If they have the same block density as in
Rimrock, oriented north -south, there is 230 feet between the street
(60-foot street), that would provide the subdivision to directly
access Country Club Road. He pointed to the location on the map
and stated that stopping site distance to the east is significantly
• less, provides 500 feet to Highway 1 and provides over 200 feet
site stopping distance in both directions. He did not know why the
developer couldn't take an access to Highway 1 or Spaulding Lane
that would allow 500 feet, and 400 feet is required for 50 mph
design speed.
Ms. Genion Hammond - 505 County Club Road - She stated that she has
been a resident of Rimrock over 20 years and chose to live in the
County because of the animals and the beauty it offers. She
realizes there will be change and as she understands that Ford Lane
is half owned by the County and half owned by the City in length,
two entities caring for the road or not. She challenged the Board
as to the maintenance and upkeep of the road and she asked about
the environmental impacts. She mentioned at Highway 1 you may wait
through three light exchanges before a person could get across
because of the traffic concentration.
Mr. Ray Archer - 423 Spaulding Lane - His home is located at the
southeast corner of the proposed development. his family selected
the area because of its openness and its proximity to the city. He
questioned the density of the proposed development compared to
surrounding areas, where most live on acreages. He believed 60
units was too dense for the area. his major concern is for the
children. He reported that the developer projected 51 children for
the 60 homes site (27 elementary, 13 junior high and li high school
students). After reviewing the homes in the $110,000 to $140,000
• range, 3-bedroom with unfinished basement, he concluded that it was
more like a family dwelling, meaning 1 1/2 to 2 children per
dwelling, meaning 90-120 children. He commented that the
developers said there was good access to the park and to the
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 16
schools. If you look at the way it is presently, none of the
connecting streets have sidewalks, curbs or gutters. He showed
that the only way to get to the parks would be to go down Country
Club and then south on Lemay to the park, which is across an
irrigation ditch. He offered an idea of a centrally located park
for the proposed development, or playground, or reduce the density
to 30, stating the existing plan shows some lots to 6,000 square
feet. His concern was for the children.
Ed Powers - represents a family that owns property to the west of
the development - The Spaulding property is between the development
and his client's property. he showed the location on the map. The
property has been owned by the family for generations, 70 years,
and have lived there. At the time of annexation, there were
several things requested and he did not see them happening in this
development plan. He said he appreciated the staff providing the
necessary information regarding the development.
Mr. Powers said (1) when the information plat was reviewed, there
was some information from old family records that not all of the
owners had participated in the election of this annexation. He
said he would bring it up later. (2) When the legal description
was reviewed, they found it to be inaccurate, the legal description
did not close and that several of the courses did not match up. In
particular, the first course which produces contiguity with the
City at this point that ran more northwesterly and away from the
City limit line. This was brought to the Planning Staff's
attention, they were notified prior to consideration by the Council
for this annexation. Unfortunately, nothing has been done
regarding those legal descriptions. Further problems have occurred
as we have reviewed the legal descriptions and how it related to
our property and how things interacted in the area.
Mr. Powers stated when he came before the Board during the
annexation process, he asked that this be a quality development, of
an urban time and that is not seen in the development plans
proposed. We don't see the urban standard being achieved. Perhaps
we don't understand the preliminary plat process. It does not show
everything. It just shows partial sidewalks only at the entry of
the subdivision, and there are no street lights to provide
illumination and security to the residents. As far as the
ownership that he alluded to that not all of the owners
participated in the election of the annexation. It had come to our
attention that the proposed detention pond area, which is along
Highway l and immediately west of the proposed subdivision, near
Terry Lake Road and across Terry Lake itself, is not owned by the
developer.
. Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 17
Mr. Powers presented some documents to enter into evidence at this
hearing. He would like to claim that he was representing the
neighborhood.
Vice -Chair Cottier said that the 30-minute time limit is for
organized neighborhood presentations.
Mr. Powers said he believed he provided sufficient copies to the
Planning and Zoning Board and the staff of a resolution and series
of quit -claim deeds. This is recorded at the County and what it
represents is the first two quit -claim deeds on pages 2 and 3.
Quit -Claim the property I pointed out previously between and enter
a common ownership between the County and the Larimer-Weld
Irrigation Company. They in turn hold the property in common.
Mr. Powers said the other two quit -claim deeds which begin on page
4 and 5, quit -claim that land to the Ford family and Powers'
family. He brought to the Board's attention on page 4, the bold
letters on the first quit -claim deed on page 4, it says that the
property that he has pointed out to the Board, is for the use and
occupancy for agricultural and farming purposes. This does not
. appear to be to us an agricultural or farming purpose. It is
definitely an urban purpose to put a detention pond there.
Legally, the detention pond belongs on the developer's property,
not on the County's and irrigation company's property, if that is
the case. The result of this is that it reduces the developers
acreage without that by 1.46 acres, the density goes to 3.29 units
per acre for the 18.24 acres that remain in the development without
the area I outlined as the triangular area.
Besides the concerns regarding ownership, there is also concern
about the drainage and who will maintain it. We see that there
will be a homeowner's association developed; we would like to have
further established with sufficient capital to maintain. We also
would expect to be able to expect and improve any drainage
improvements on the triangular area as well, sine we do have an
interest in this area. We don't doubt that the drainage can go
through that area, but at historic rates, and we do want to have
the assurance that we have the ability to inspect and approve the
drainage improvements which will flow over an ownership interest
that we hold. We also expect that the developer will improve the
drainage along Highway 1, Terry Lake.Road to its ultimate point of
discharge at the Larimer-Weld Canal. That would mean improvement
along the highway -barrow ditch. That concluded his comments.
Clifford Hart - 609 Cordial Road - He agreed with what other
neighbors had said and that he lives on the north side of Country
Club Road, where the lots are considerably larger and most are
acreages, as are some of the properties to the south. he addressed
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 18
density being too high and found it difficult to understand how the
project would be a buffer between larger properties and larger
properties. The printed information that he had seen is somewhat
misleading in regard to the wonderful site this is for this type of
development, such as a park within 3,000 feet, only if you swim the
Eaton Ditch or allow your kids to do so. Major employers were
supposed to be within 3,000 feet, again only if you swim the Eaton
Ditch or take Lemay or College Avenue. He was confused by the
process as they were not allowed to discuss density at the
annexation hearing and now er are basically being told that we are
fortunate that they haven't passed 5 units per acre minimum and
that we are lucky that we are only getting 3 units per acre. He
did not understand at what point the density gets to be discussed.
In regard to lot size, he said, if you look at the lots they are in
the 7,000 - 7,500 square foot category. The developer's claim to
fame is 10,000 square foot average. I can develop 6 lots, 5 at
2,000 and 1 at 100,000 and collect 18,300 square foot average. The
figures can be somewhat misleading. One other number that was
confusing was that the solar variance is based on 32 of 58 lots to
come up with a percentage. According to the staff report earlier,
he didn't understand the difference between 58 and 60.
Carl Spaulding - owner of the property bordering on the west side.
he had big problems with where the road tends to dump on his
property. He showed the location of his home facing south. The
access on Spaulding lane notes that there are problems on its
access to Highway 1. There can't be Valley View, Spaulding Lane,
trailer people to go up and out (he was pointing to the map). He
said he was not contacted and asked planning staff to communicate
with him.
Don Mussard - 2124 Ford Lane - he said it was across the road and
part of the access to the proposed development. The proposal by
the developers is strong on defending objections raised in the
past, but nothing was proposed but simply defended questions that
had been raised. The point that this very nicely fits and buffers
between urban and rural and suburban developments that have been
there for many years. He contended that "piece -meal" development,
one small area at a time, is self-perpetuating in that one is the
buffer for the next one and the next one, etc. He was not sold on
this idea. He requested the area map. The number of feet to a
neighborhood playground is there to here. There is no street to
connect the neighborhood easily or the alternative is a congested
street or Country Club Road to Lemay, none of which have berms nor
sidewalks. We are told that someday they will be provided for us.
It doesn't help the kids that have to cross other people's property
in order to get to school. They are close enough so they can't
ride the bus, they can't get to the park, it is misleading to say
it is 3,500 feet. He said the same thing applies with the major
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 19
employment center, regional shopping area, they are not direct
distances. You have to go through the "mousetrap" of north Fort
Collins.
Mr. Mussard said the storm drainage problem had been brought up
several times, in previous meetings, and has not been
satisfactorily answered. It has been said that all of this would
be taken care of. The Power's family has given some specific
problems with the drainage. He pointed out an area on the map and
located a basin stating there is no drainage at this time. He also
said there is a ridge that surrounds an area where water stands
after a good rain or if irrigation ditches are not shut off after
a time. His question was if the developers were planning to drain
the entire surrounding area, or just the subdivision. He said
drainage has not been addressed.
Mr. Mussard said there has not been any presentation to the
neighborhood as to specifics of what is the quality of
construction. There have been numbers given with no specific
information. He referenced the shades of color discussed earlier
in the meeting, red or maroon. The neighbors do not know what kind
• of external surface will be on the houses and yet there is an
expectation that this is a wonderful plan for this community. If
specific colors are addressed in south Fort Collins, it would be
polite for the neighbors to see what kind of buildings we are going
to have directly across the road from where we live, for simple
courtesy.
Mr. Mussard said it has been relayed by the City that services have
to go through the County, who have been told in the past that this
is not a problem. Where are agreements between the two agencies
that anyone else on Ford Lane is injured and 911 is called, how
clear is it to the dispatcher when we on the County side as opposed
to the City side. He knows that the ambulance service serves the
county and the fire department serves the county. Who comes to
check the break-in? Who is the first police officer to arrive? Is
it City or County? He stated there will be some confusion when the
center line of the road is considered. How do I know which side I
am on?
Mr. Mussard was concerned about the upgrade on only one side at
this time and we have not been given an adequate answer as to how
this impacts our side of Ford Lane. Will we be required, now or in
the future, to put in curb, gutter and sidewalks? What is going to
be put in on the City side as far as curb, gutter and sidewalk?
Right now, it the rain's real good, his water runs into his lawn.
I think that is great, I am saving water and I am not using water.
I am conscious of that and I an careful of it. If I have to put in
curb and gutter, I have a whole new picture, a small item, but it
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 20
concerns me because of the impact of having two different agencies
on either side.
Mr. Mussard urged the Board to review the numbers and to look at
the situation first hand, drive around on Country Club, on
Spaulding, on Ford Lane, park there for about an hour and see if
you think 100 vehicles will use Ford Lane on any day right now.
This number is excessive and he has no idea where it came from. It
is not in the report. Please look at the drainage and the basin,
please review the traffic situation and do some arithmetic. It
doesn't match up. Again, he reiterated that piece -meal development
will self -perpetuate itself right on to the Wyoming line.
Ms. Dauda Brooks - 2116 Ford Lane - She wanted to go on the record
without repeating her neighbors that she has the same concerns.
She said there should be a "holistic" view of development,
planning, as is being done in the Harmony Corridor Project, and
should be done on a small plot as well. She thought the density
was too high.
CITIZEN INPUT CLOSED.
Chair Cottier said she would restate the questions raised by the
citizens. The first question is concerning the traffic issues,
specifically the accuracy of the traffic study and the implications
for the proposed access onto Ford Lane onto Country Club Road.
Tom Vosburg of the Transportation Department was asked to respond.
Mr. Tom Vosburg, City Transportation Department, Transportation
Planner. He addressed questions raised by the citizens:
(1) The estimate of existing traffic on Ford Lane was too
high at 100, and it was pointed out that the assumptions
used in the traffic study were applied. It should be
more like 50 trips per day. Mr. Vosburg said the
gentleman was right, the report is wrong. The current
traffic on Ford Lane is about 50 trips a day. He didn't
believe that significantly changed the conclusions of the
traffic study, although the additional trips estimated to
be generated by the new development are appropriately
calculated and if anything, that error results in
overstating the total amount of traffic that will be
carried on Ford Lane and Country Club Road, but just a
very small amount.
(2) The total amount of new trips generated by Falcon Ridge
was discussed. He believed the gentleman used his own
estimate of approximately 350 daily trips based on the
0
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 21
information he got out of the traffic study. Again, that
is correct, it is roughly the total average daily trips
that this development will generate and put on Ford Lane.
He said he would like to put it into context. The 350-
400 trips is well within the capacity of residential
streets in Fort Collins. The Transportation Department
doesn't consider residential streets busy until the count
is over 750 and closer to 1,000 average daily trips. Two
weeks ago, we heard from residents of an area called
Imperial Estates, which is a county subdivision where
residents were concerned about maintaining a rural life
style. The streets within Imperial Estates carry
approximately 400 daily trips now, so the future volumes
on Ford Lane would be in that ball park, or slightly
lower.
(3) The safe stopping distance between Ford Lane and
potential access point that a gentleman pointed out was
discussed. He stated that in his conversations with a
State Highway Engineer that 200 feet is the required safe
stopping distance. He is correct. An additional access
. point could be provided in that general area, and he
indicated on the site plan that it would be feasible and
safe from a Transportation point of view. The volumes
forecast don't require that there be an access from a
different point or multiple accesses, but it would be a
safe, feasible access point. Another point of concern
was raised regarding existing backup on Terry Lake Road
and Highway 287 and that intersection in the mornings at
the red light. The State will be improving that
intersection. The applicant touched on it briefly in his
presentation. They will be reconstructing that whole
area and putting in double left turn lanes along with
right turn lanes, so the operation of the intersection
should be improved significantly with the project. It
was his understanding that project is supposed to be
under construction within a year, although he did not
have all the details.
Member Strom asked Mr. Vosburg about the possibility of an
additional access point within the development and what do he see
as projections for longer term traffic on Country Club Road. Would
this be a problem?
Mr. Vosburg wasn't sure that he understood correctly. What is the
long-range project volume of Country Club Road? Was the second
question related to adding an access point? Country Club Road now
• carries approximately 2,000 vehicles per day. The traffic study
forecasts long range in the year 2015 that will be 3,500 vehicles
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 22
per day. The effect of adding an additional access point or moving
the proposed access point wouldn't have any affect whatsoever on
the total volume on Country Club Road because it is the same amount
of trips being generated by the development just being disbursed to
Country Club Road in a different way. If, for instance, an
additional access point was provided within this development at the
point suggested by one of the gentlemen who testified, the affect
would be that it would be spread out over two access points onto
Country Club Road. From a general practice point of view, the aim
is to take advantage of existing access and limit access onto a
road in order to improve the flow on that road. Providing multiple
points of access on Country Club Road may impede the flow of
traffic than if the access was concentrated at one point. The flip
side of that is providing multiple points of access disburses the
traffic more within the area that is generating the traffic.
Member Strom asked if his view of Country Club Road is to serve as
a collector street?
Mr. Vosburg said that is correct.
Member Strom stated that we have a lot of concern if there are
multiple accesses to arterial but not to collectors.
Mr. Vosburg Said that is correct.
Member Strom also asked about the Highway 1 intersection
improvements. To your knowledge, are they planning to change the
alignment or location of the intersection, or are they simply
upgrading it and how does that interplay with Spaulding Lane
connection?
Mr. Vosburg said there is significant realignment of the
intersection, and it is difficult to explain verbally. He chose a
graphic that was well suited. He explained the funded project "in
the works". Terry Lake Road will come down and be realigned to
come directly across the bottom of Terry Lake and intersect Highway
287. He pointed out where the new intersection would be
constructed with double left -turn lanes and other improvements.
This small ditch crossing, which is a bridge now in between
Spaulding Lane intersection and N. College, would be removed.
Spaulding Lane would follow the old Terry Lake Road alignment up to
the new intersection of the realignment of Terry Lake Road at
another point. This would separate the intersection of Spaulding
Lane and Terry Lake Road and Highway 287. There will be
considerable offset, where now there is very little offset in that
area. The angles of intersection will also be improved.
• Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 23
Member Strom asked if the projection is
day for this development onto Country
projection for traffic via Spaulding?
for roughly 350 trips per
Club Road? What is the
Mr. Vosburg answered yes to the first question. The traffic study
focuses on peak hours only. He did his own estimations backing up
the ADT for Fort Lane, but has not done the same for Spaulding, but
said roughly their distribution between the two points is pretty
much an even split 60-40, roughly the same kind of volume.
Spaulding Lane roughly carries 500 ADT. Their traffic study
estimated that in the year 2015, it would carry approximately 750
ADT. The actual long-range projections for Spaulding Lane is low,
closer to 1,500 ADT. While there is a difference in numbers, that
is within the ball park in a residential street in Fort Collins,
although it is starting to get busier than we see in many areas.
Vice -Chair Cottier asked, regarding Ford Lane, the upkeep and
maintenance questions with the idea of it being half City and half
County?
Mr. Mike Herzig, Planning Engineer, addressed the question stating
• that he had talked with Rex Burns, the County Engineer, about the
situation with Ford Lane. It is now a County road. The developer
would be required to improve it with curb and gutter on both sides
of the street with sidewalks at least on the west side.
Maintenance of it is something the County would like to discuss
with the City. There is an annual meeting between the City and the
County where they divide up areas like this and determine the most
logical organization to maintain the road. Because the City would
be maintaining all the streets in this new development, it would be
logical that the City would take over the maintenance of Ford Lane
in accordance with full improvement to City standards.
Vice -Chair Cottier said "...full improvements on the east side of
the street?"
Mr. Herzig said they would have to reconstruct the whole street,
and the City requires that the curb and gutter be installed on the
other side. That would still depend upon a design and working with
the residents along the frontage to determine how the elevation
should work and whether that causes problems for those properties.
That is yet to be done within the final design phases of this
project.
Vice -Chair Cottier asked that for the City to take over full
responsibility for that street, it would have to be improved on the
east side?
• Mr. Herzig said the whole street has to be improved.
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 24
Vice -Chair Cottier asked if it would be the financial
responsibility of the homeowners on Ford Lane?
Mr. Herzig said it would be the full responsibility of the
developer, because of their impact on the existing street, to
reconstruct the street and put a concrete border on the street to
take care of the requirement that there is a gutter on a City -
standard street.
Vice -Chair Cottier asked about the inadequate infra -structure
existing there, water, water pressure, sewer? Can you address
those?
Mr. Herzig said no he could not, it would have to be done by Elco
if they are providing the water, they would have to respond to that
question.
Mr. Edward Lawler, the applicant, said he would not speak for Elco
but what they have told them they can supply the area well. By
looping, the pressure should be improved quite possibly. The
sanitation, Cherry Hills Sanitation (name of company muted) also
feels that the lines that have been there are quite capable of
holding the subdivision. They had designed their lines bigger for
more development in this area, compared to farther east where a lot
of development is going. So they are actually in favor of using
the infrastructure they already have in place.
Vice -Chair Cottier directed a question to Mr. Paul Eckman, Deputy
City Attorney, brought out by a citizen stating that a legal
description was inaccurate for the annexation and also the
triangular piece shown in the northwest corner was not owned by the
developer, therefore, could it be used as a detention pond for this
development. Are there any problems with us considering this
project proposed with those legal questions?
Deputy City Attorney Eckman said when the annexation petition was
submitted, the certification of the developer's attorney said all
of the owners of the property described in the annexation had
signed the annexation petition. The City does not do its own title
search, it relies upon the attorney to certify that for the City.
We are relying on that and will continue to rely on it unless we
have some more definitive information that would indicate to the
contrary. Regarding the legal description not closing, he thought
he would have to refer to Mike Herzig or one of the engineers who
have examined the legal description. The City Attorney's Office
doesn't plot them out to examine if they close or not. Generally,
as £ar as the Law is concerned, if the legal description is
sufficient to give reasonable notice of the land that is proposed
to be annexed, I think we wouldn't have to worry about it. If it
• Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 25
is not sufficient for that, then it leaves open the question what
land is sought to be annexed, and I think that would present a
problem.
Mr. Olt answered that with respect to the legal descriptions that
were submitted with the petitions for annexation, he was made aware
by Mr. Powers that there were some discrepancies. Mr. Olt had the
city's Land Surveyor run a closure check on those legal
descriptions and he indicated that they did close, but
unfortunately, Mr. Olt did not have the annexation files with him;
however, he could produce that. He gave closure checks on the
annexations. Realize that annexations are developed from legal
descriptions, they are not field surveyed. After he is finished,
he would like Mr. Rutherford to tell us where the legal
descriptions came from. Those were supplied and certified by the
applicant's attorney. The City Survey says that the legal
descriptions did, in fact, close.
Mr. Dick Rutherford, engineer and surveyor on this project, said
there has also been title insurance, through American Heritage
Title Insurance Company, and has issued policy on this. It has
• been checked and rechecked, so he didn't think that there is a
possibility of a problem in the title. It is very remote. They
have issued a policy from the Ford Estate, through the developers,
where the descriptions came from and the insurance company has
insured the descriptions.
Vice -Chair Cottier asked if it pertained to the triangular piece?
Mr. Rutherford said yes, there is actually two parcels, a deed to
the triangular parcel, and that is the way the Ford Estate had
gotten it to 1960 something. Hark and Heritage Title didn't have
any problem with it.
Vice -Chair Cottier said none -the -less there seems to be issues
about drainage, where the detention pond should be located and does
it adequately handle the drainage from this site. Mr. Rutherford
said there has been a preliminary drainage report done on this. It
is broken into two basins, the north two-thirds of the property
drains to the triangular area. He didn't know if the Board members
were acquainted with the area specifically but it is very low,
quite a bit lower than the highway. It will work very nicely for
a detention pond. In fact, for the historic flows, it will be let
out at the historic rate and continue down Highway 1. The other
detention pond is in the southwest corner of the property, and it
will discharge at a historic rate onto Spaulding Lane, which also
goes west to the Larimer-weld Canal.
0
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 26
Mr. Eckman had one other comment to make on the annexation,
ownership and so on. The Annexation Statutes of the State call for
a person having the right to challenge an annexation within 60 days
after the effective date of the annexation. This challenge is to
be brought in the district -- in this case, Larimer County. The 60
days has not yet run regarding the time, Statute of Limitation
regarding the challenging of the annexation; however, the Statute
also says that "any party bringing such action shall first have
filed a motion of reconsideration within ten (10) days of the
effective date of the ordinance, finalizing the challenged
annexation, which motion shall state with particularity the grounds
upon which the judicial review is sought." Mr. Eckman stated that
no motion for reconsideration has been filed, with my knowledge,d
within ten (10) days of the effective date of the annexation
ordinance. It is his opinion that it is too late to challenge the
annexation.
Mr. Basil Hamdan, Civil Engineer, of the Storm Water Utility
Department, said he would address questions concerning drainage.
Mr. Hamdan showed on a slide the area to be releasing near the
Powers property. One of the questions asked of them was to
ascertain how the drainage will work on Terry Lake Road and how
they will mitigate any release there. Another question concerned
the other detention pond with a low area and staff wants to make
sure that whatever is going on in the area does not exceed street
capacity. These two issues have been raised and asked of them, but
have not received re -submittal on those. At this point, we can
only hope that they will meet them, and they are usually addressed
with the final submittal requirements.
Vice -Chair Cottier asked of the applicant about a homeowners
association and what about elevations for the proposed homes. Is
there any idea.what the houses would look like?
Mr. Olt responded by saying that elevations have not been typically
reviewed for single-family residential development, be it the north
or south side of Fort Collins. We do not typically ask for
building elevations for single-family residential, but it is
something that can certainly be considered.
Mr. Lawler said that there will be a homeowners association. The
papers are not drawn up since it is in such an early stage at this
point for that. As far as the elevations for the houses, this is
just a preliminary, and we don't want to get too far into things
before we find out what kind of problems may arise. There have
been preliminary discussions with Tom Bolt, an architect from
Boulder. It is the applicant's intention to retain his services to
design five or six designs specifically for this site. New designs
will include masonry on the exteriors and upgraded roofing
0 •
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 27
material. We have not sat down and drawn the designs yet. They
will be professionally done and tasteful and a benefit to the
neighborhood.
Member Strom asked for the citizen's question about the sidewalk
issue in this area.
Mr. Olt said internally within Falcon Ridge PUD, they are proposing
sidewalks throughout, on both sides of the streets, sidewalks along
Country Club Road and sidewalks along at least the west side of
Ford Lane. So typically, this would have to meet the standard City
criteria for streets and sidewalks.
Member Strom asked other than within the development itself, is
there any pedestrian facilitation from this area to the school or
park site?
Mr. Olt said there is not to date, and that dialogue hasn't taken
place. No, once you leave the area of Falcon Ridge development,
there is no sidewalk.
Member Strom asked if the City typically looks at off -site
improvements to sidewalks. To his recollection, do we?
Mr. Olt deferred the question to Mike Herzig.
Mr. Herzig stated that the City Code does not address that. The
only off -site requirements that can be placed on a developer have
to do with off -site street improvements. However, it being a PUD,
there have been off -site sidewalks built by developers. Under that
type of framework, you can do that. The only thing he wanted to
add is that as part of the sidewalk improvements internal to the
site, they'd also be improving the sidewalks on frontage of Country
Club Road all the way to Highway 1. That doesn't take care of the
direction to the schools.
Member Strom said speaking of schools, would you address the
standard response as it concerns Tavelli Elementary capacity. He
was looking at the staff report, and it reports the capacity is
there now. Mr. Olt was asked to address the question.
Mr. Olt replied that was correct. The capacity did appear to be
there. The numbers in terms of children generated from any
development of this nature, based on elementary, junior high, and
high school, is given to us by the school district.
Member Cottier asked if the school district have a policy that
defines that to walk in, there must be sidewalks, and is the school
district aware that these kids are within the walking distance and
there are no sidewalks?
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 28
Mr. Olt replied that he was unable to answer that question tonight;
but would research that and have an answer.
Mr. Vosberg added that within the safe routes to school program,
some safe routes to school do utilize areas where there are no
sidewalks.
Member Cottier asked if they had considered extending the northern
east -west street out to Highway 1 as your access rather than going
out to Ford Lane or up to Country Club?
Mr. Lawler replied that they did not discuss that in great length.
They did check, and it was from the guidelines they were given on
distance from that intersection, they would not have been able to
do it. Because of the land point sticking up at Spaulding, they
would have to be fairly north with a east -west route. It was our
opinion that would not be something that would be acceptable in the
traffic design.
Member Cottier asked why was the stub on the middle east -west
shown?
Mr. Lawler replied for interconnection with future sites.
Member Cottier asked if that would have the same problem?
Mr. Lawler replied he did not think the intent was ever to go clear
across to Highway 1. He thought that's to allow further
development, some other attachment. Interneighborhood connection
is all the intent was.
Member Cottier asked what their position was on connecting to
Country Club through their eastern cul-de-sac rather than having
the two access points onto Ford Lane?
Mr. Lawler replied that their conceptual review, initially, when
they first designed this development, was to have an access to
Country Club; and we were advised at that time by Transportation
they'd rather us not do that, so they altered their plan to this
plan. They never have been against that, and they could take this
cul-de-sac onto Country Club if that was the Board's desire.
Mr. Sherman added that if they were to do that, they are right at
the minimum density requirement right not, basically, a number of
things in the course of laying out this project and getting to the
point that they were at now. They would be in the position of
losing a lot both in terms of their density count, and that also a
solar lot. Losing that lot was not without financial cost to them.
It was something that they were willing to do in order to try and
be cooperative with the neighbors and to relieve some problems that
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 29
may exist there, if they can work that out in terms of some of
those requirements.
Mr. Sherman also added that going across the drainage field, the
1.46 acre there that's shown in yellow, there's something on the
order of a 16-foot elevation change there from their property down
to the bottom of that and back up to Highway 1. He thought that it
was impractical to try to put a street up there. There would be a
30-degree angle at Highway 1 intersection and that would make it
tough to get out onto the road.
Mr Sherman also responded that as far as the stub out on Golden
Eagle Drive, which is the center east -west street, he thought that
it's always more something the City would like us to do to allow
for future development if that parcel to the west of them ever
desires to develop.
Member Klataske asked about accessing Country Club Road from what
is not a cul-de-sac and perhaps working with the neighbors along
Ford Lane, converting that to a cul-de-sac to relieve their
concerns about traffic along there.
Mr. Olt replied there had been ongoing discussion since
worksession. He knew that the applicants have talked with Tom
Vosberg with the Transportation Department. He asked Mr. Vosberg
to respond to that question.
Member Klataske asked if there was a concern about having two
points of access to Country Club that close together?
Mr. Vosberg replied no. That would be acceptable.
Mr. Olt added that regarding cul-de-sacking Ford Lane, he assumed
when they said cul-de-sacking, they meant cul-de-sacking the
northern end of it where it intersects County Club Road now.
Member Klataske replied that was correct.
Mr. Vosberg stated from a traffic feasibility point of view, it
would work okay. The numbers supported one point of access not.
He did not know .what was involved in the process of vacating the
right-of-way and closing off a street in terms of just --part of
it's County, but it could be explored.
Member Klataske thought it would alleviate the traffic coming along
Ford Lane for this subdivision, making the subdivision possible for
the traffic going onto Country Club Road, as opposed to putting it
down on Ford Lane.
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June 6, 1994
Page 30
Member Klataske asked about solar orientation and the request for
60 single family lots. After calculation of the number of lots to
come up with the percentage of 55 percent, they were only talking
32 of the 58 lots. It's off by the one earlier. What was the
difference there?
Mr. Olt replied that the difference was the ordinance specifies
that -- it related to lots of 15,000 square feet or less. Granted,
a lot in excess of 15,000 square feet maybe could qualify as, but
it did not meet the definition of the ordinance. Therefore, there
were two lots --unless something is changed, that are in excess of
15,000 square feet. Therefore, they do not have to comply with the
ordinance. Therefore, they were looking at 32 of the 58 that are
subject to the ordinance that are in compliance.
Member Klataske asked if either of the two lots that are in excess
of 15,000 square feet complied.
Mr. Olt replied that the theory is that when the ordinance was
adopted in excess of 15,000 square feet, they cannot comply because
you've got enough space on that lot to be able to orient the house
any way you want.
Member Klataske asked if there would be streetlights?
Mr. Olt replied that there would be.
Member Cottier asked about construction traffic.
Mr. Lawler replied they had not discussed that, but that could be
easily be routed separately as an access off of Country Club. That
was not a problem with them.
Member Strom moved for approval of Falcon Ridge PUD - Preliminary,
recognizing the findings of fact in the staff report, with the
authorization for the solar orientation variance, and with one
condition that staff and developers explore this question of an
additional access point onto Country Club Road in some more detail
before we get to the final. A second condition that we at least get
some sketch plan elevations, since the neighborhood has requested
that prior to the final.
Member Klataske seconded the motion adding a third condition about
finding out about access to school, whatever off -site improvements
might be required to get the kids from this subdivision out, going
down on Country Club Road or onto Lemay, if it's going to require
a ditch crossing or what; so they're getting points with this right
now for being in proximity to the school, and yet the distance is
as a bird flies, and these kids are going to have to swim a ditch
or something.
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 31
Member Strom asked what specifically would be the point?
Member Klataske replied that there be some, within the 3500 feet to
the park. If that involves a ditch crossing off -site, then that
would have to be provided.
Member Strom preferred to vote on that as an amendment and have
some discussion on it.
Member Walker seconded the motion as stated.
Member Strom commented that he was not exactly sure where they
would be on that. The only reason he was reticent to take it on as
a friendly amendment is he was not sure about the precedent, since
he did not remember them having done that before. He asked the
staff for some feedback on that.
Member Klataske stated if giving them points for being within the
3500 foot of the school, that it should be within 3500 foot walking
distance. In other words, they shouldn't be given the points for
it.
• Mr. Olt replied the way it's been dealt with, was that the
distances have been defined as the crow flies. That's how they
have been done on any development. So this would be a unique
situation in this case. Granted, there were concerns about the
safety of the movement of the children down Country Club Road, but
in terms of the direct, almost the direct, access to Tavelli
school, in this case, is down Country Club Road, and then it is
just around the corner on Lemay Avenue, so there aren't ditches to
cross, there aren't these things. Be it as the crow flies or as
the street flies, he thought it was within that distance.
Member Klataske asked how about the same thin as far as the park,
you know, where they're given points for being within proximity to
the park? y
Mr. Olt replied the park's a different situation. The location of
the park, granted, it's a little more difficult to get to the park
via streets. And that would increase the distance. But again, the
way we have interpreted the points charts in the Land Development
Guidance System, it's a straight-line distance from the closest
point of the development to the closest point of that criteria,
whatever it may be; in this case, the park.
Member Cottier thought that points out an area that they need to
look at, because the distance makes no difference if it's not
• accessible.
The motion passed 4-1 with Member Klataske voting in the negative.
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 32
ITEM 5 - INDIAN HILLS VILLAGE PUD - FINAL •81-93A
Ms. Kirsten Whetstone, Project Planner, gave the staff report and
indicated changes in the packet they received Friday, noting a new
page 3 and 4 and bolded sections explaining setbacks and maximum
heights for buildings. These changes will be reflected on the
plans.
Mr. Jonathan Prouty of Laginitas Company, planner, designer, and
developer of the project gave out additional materials to the Board
members. He gave a detailed presentation of the project for Indian
Hills. He explained the cottage home concept, tree buffering and
design, building heights, drainage, narrower streets, setbacks,
density, etc. (Detailed information was in the materials
submitted. He requested that the Board accept the Final plans for
Indian Hills Village PUD.
Mr. Richard Rutherford, Consultant Engineer, stated the report Mr.
Prouty gave covered the major areas of concern. He added that they
have worked to save all existing trees and in just a few places
there are landscape timbers and design changes to accommodate
preserving the trees and provide an adequate drainage channel.
Mr. George Betz - 1101 Kirkwood - He is associated with the project
in that he was the original developer of the Indian Hills Project
for around 15 years. He said the original design was for higher
density and height. He said that the site was very difficult to
work with from a developers standpoint and that Mr. Prouty had done
an excellent job. He supported the project and requested approval
by the Board.
CITIZEN INPUT
Mr. Bruce Cohen - 1812 Bush Court - He was co -presenter of a group
representing the neighborhood on Bush Court. He presented a packet
of documents to the Board, entering them into as evidence. He used
a slide presentation to support the concerns of the neighbors. He
focused on the following issues of concern for the neighborhood.
1. History - The PUD was first established for Indian Hills
in 1979, with a 40-foot setback between existing property
lines and the townhouses. He has resided there since 1988,
relying on the previous PUD requirements. There were plans
for a private school that fell through. The site was acquired
by Jonathan Prouty.
The original the neighbors heard of the Indian Hills
Development was in December of 1993 and referred to the
minutes of the neighborhood meeting. The following issues
were brought up: height of new homes, the setback from Bush
• Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June '6, 1994
Page 33
Court, drainage issues, trees and buffering issues, placement
of garages, light pollution, Stuart Street Issues (safety,
parking, etc.). He believes, the issues were not resolved.
He referred to All Development Criteria with the following
concerns: building height and views, shading, setback,
landscape, site lighting a noise and vibration. He wasn't
sure where drainage went, perhaps sewage and waste? The Bush
Court neighbors are concerned about: open side yards, tree
buffering, small lots and height and size of homes. Staff
recommended conditional approval at preliminary and the
neighbors were concerned about page 1 and the confusion if the
old PUD is still in existence or not, the existence of the
landscape buffer, neighborhood compatibility, storm water,
drainage, grading, existing vegetation, flood plain issues and
that these would be resolved before final approval. There
have been so many changes made over the past several months,
he was uncertain if they have been resolved before final. The
replacement schedule for the existing landscape, that has to
be approved by the City Natural Resource Department, and there
is uncertainty if it is really approved.
• On March 31, the final PUD was submitted, and during April and
May many changes took place after final had been submitted,
drainage changes, property line (trees along the buffer). So
it is unclear to him where the property line exists.
On June 1, the developer, not with the Busch Ct. neighborhood.
It was a productive meeting to resolve issues and came up with
common ground: the neighbors are not opposing development and
support it but feel it needs improvement according the
neighbors. There is cooperation between the neighbors and the
developers, there is a report on the results of the meeting in
the packet submitted, concerns the single-family dwellings and
quality of the homes. Both the developer and neighbors are
frustrated with the inconsistent and changing plans, the
survey dated May 11, 1994, showed the property line for the
trees belonging to the Busch Court Neighbors, last week it was
found not the case, the trees are on the Indian Hills PUD
property. Some frustrations with the development plan are:
(1) Engineering changes, i.e., two drainage plans, both with
the same date on them, that are very different and confusing.
For one of them to work they would have to remove all existing
trees.
• (2) Height of homes was reported as a concern of both the
neighbors and the developer. They would like to see them
reduced.
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 34
(3) Innovative concepts of the project are good but with some
concerns for garage placement to the rear of buildings and
small lots which result in small setbacks (concerns for
drainage and landscape buffer, aesthetics, roads too close).
These challenges need to be overcome.
Hari - 1840 Bush Court - He addressed:
(1) Neighborhood Compatibility - the neighborhood believes it
has not been met effectively. The existing neighborhood is
mainly single-family homes with a cluster of townhouses with
heights not exceeding 24 feet and ample green space between
them. He referred to a letter written by Keith Weir to the
Board pointing out structures in the project only 15 feet from
his property line. He states it will have a negative impact
on his property value if plans proceed and other neighbors
feel this may also negatively impact their property values.
A normal two-story home is 22' to 24' in height he believed.
A normal ranch -style is 14' to 16' in height. The proposed
homes can be 30' to 35' in height. The highest existing homes
are 22' to 24' height. He used slides to illustrate his
point. He pointed out that 35' would be higher than existing
trees.
(2) Safety - He pointed out Lesser Junior High students
needing to walk along Stuart. The entry way to the proposed
development further complicates the traffic geometry and
substantially compromises the safety of all forms of traffic,
particularly pedestrians and bicyclists. It would seem
prudent to study this area very carefully. He has witnessed
two near misses with auto/bikers just recently near
Stuart/Stover.
(3) Item #30 All Development Chart - Shadows Cast.
(4) Safety of the proposed sidewalks and parking slots
proposed for the handicapped who may reside in the homes.
Ron Fowler - 1824 Bush Court - He addressed drainage issues. He
reported the 100-year flood elevations of 4968' and 49701. He
pointed out that Spring Creek Pond is 4969' and there is a drop of
elevation at Arthur's Ditch above Indian Hills West of about 241.
The drainage that is planned will drain around existing resident's
back fences. There are homeowners that already experience damp
basements. The contractor shows drainage away from Bush Court, yet
City maps shown drainage onto Bush Court. There will be damage to
trees along the drainage ditch. He read from a prepared statement.
Because of the history of drainage concerns and current water
impacts, the impenetrable surfaces of the project, drainage should
be studied very carefully. He was concerned that the project was
• Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 35
being rushed through to obtain approval before the drainage issue
has been addressed properly.
Sonia Nornes - 1808 Bush Court - She addressed landscape buffer,
tree line, privacy, light and noise pollution. Her concerns
included the 9 foot distance of backyards to roads and street
lighting. There is not a continuous landscape buffer on all
properties to the new project. Her concern was the drainage plan
impacts on the 10-year landscape replacement plan without adequate
space for the necessary setbacks in tree -line buffering. Tree root
damage may result in loss of trees where drainage ditches will be
dug. She made a point that evergreens, such as spruces, need 30
feet of space, quite a bit more than deciduous. She requested that
these issues be addressed by appropriate city departments before
final approval.
Mr. Bruce Cohen summarized by stating that the project be slowed
down to get detailed plans in order to address issues raised by the
neighbors this evening. He recommended the old PUD requirements
would take care of several issues of concern, setback, height
• issues, excavating of trees along the drainage ditch, and tree
replacement. The concern for the garage placements. He questioned
open space areas not being adequate. He requested the removal of
two homes, as stated in a letter from Mr. Prouty of May 19, 1994,
but six days later it was withdrawn.
CITIZEN INPUT CLOSED
Vice -Chair Cottier asked that the drainage concerns and the tree
replacement plans be addressed by City staff. What does shadow
analysis show, and does the PUD meet City requirements? Does the
drainage plan affect the existing trees and buffering of existing
landscaping?
Ms. Whetstone addressed the tree replacement question stating that
the Forestry Department has recently reviewed both the existing
tree replacement plan and the drainage plan. Natural Resources
reviewed it just last week and both agreed that the plan is a good
plan, excellent in detail. There is a signed copy in the packet.
Some elms have been removed by neighbors and that is why there are
gaps. The developer said he would replace them appropriately or
with whatever trees the neighbors wanted. She deferred the
drainage issue to Storm Water Utility. She mentioned the criteria
for the shadow question and pointed out the existing trees of 35,
in height would cast a longer shadow than the buildings.
• Vice -Chair Cottier stated that the document received by the Board
is a draft of the neighborhood agreements reached at a June 1st
meeting. She asked if this document could be added to the
development agreement.
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 36
Paul Eckman answered if they are agreements that have been met by
the developer and the neighbors they could be worked out with Mr.
Eckman , Mr. Herzig and the developer, Mr. Prouty, and to make sure
it was the agreement they reached with the developer.
Basil Hamdan, Storm Water Utility Department, stated that drainage
has been a troubling issue with this project and a controversial
issue. The main concern of the Busch Court neighbors is whether
the PUD will be able to drain the west part of the site without
impacting their properties. He went into detail of the changes in
the drainage plans through the planning process for this project.
The proposed plan now drives the drainage through a pipe,
alleviating the concerns. In some areas there are tight
constraints, with trees, home placements and allowance for the 100
year flood plains (the tightest constraint being 140% of the City
100% flow requirements are 133% so the present exceeds the minimum
requirement. The Plan still needs work with the City Forester to
meet constraints of the existing trees.
Vice -Chair Cottier asked if the sign -off by the City Forester and
Storm Water Utility believe that the trees will survive the
drainage swale?
Ms. Whetstone replied that in those areas, if there is a problem
with the trees, there is a remote possibility that some trees will
not make it. At the current time there is a densely planted
landscape buffer over and above what the City requires as a buffer,
plus a 6-foot high solid -wood fence. There is no requirement in
the LDGS for a landscape buffer to be solid. If a few trees were
lost, this would not significantly impact of the quality of buffer
provided. She further stated that there is a standard planned unit
development condition, attached to Staff recommendation, to review
and approve the storm drainage plans and utility plans before the
utility plans are filed and development agreement is signed.
Mr. Hamdan said that the Board can approve land use and layout, but
the Storm Drainage approval will be about three months behind the
Planning and Zoning Board approval before the utility plan and
development agreement can be resolved and approved. This is
standard on nearly all PUDs. The neighbors will be able to resolve
their questions during this time, and he believed they could be
resolved.
Vice -Chair Cottier stated that no building permits could be issued
before these issues are resolved to the satisfaction of the City,
as no permits are issued with a final plat, utility plans, and
development agreement.
. Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 37
Member Strom asked, in reference to the neighbors questions
concerning damp basements, if in Mr. HamdanIs judgment the drainage
plan would have effect on that?
Mr. Hamdan said, most of their seepage problems are coming from the
Arthur Ditch and that is probably not going to change with this
development. He stated there would be less percolation as a result
of the PUD and water will be approved off of Indian Hills West
Village and conveyed via pipe going, under that swale, directly to
Spring Creek. If any thing, the PUD and drainage solution it will
reduce the ground water levels in that area.
Mr. Prouty stated that the program originally planned with Forestry
was not a one-shot program, but it takes care of existing trees and
neighbors needs on an on -going basis. The property line goes just
outside their fence. All original corner markers have been located
for them and marked by his Engineer. The trees along the old tree
line, proceeds two -three feet down to the east of their fence line.
The developer proposes a four- to six-foot wide tree buffer east of
the fence, exclusively for trees, with no grading. This was done
only after consulting with the City Forester because of concern for
tree roots. They have complied with the requirements of the City
Forester, to preserve the existing trees.
Vice -Chair Cottier asked, regarding the drainage plan about a
written commitment from the Indian Hills West townhouse that they
would not make any modifications which would affect the drainage
plan?
Mr. Hamdan stated that the townhouse PUD is a completely developed
area and only on newly developed areas can conditions be placed.
There is an existing condition that states that site drainage
across the newly developed site (Indian Hills Village), including
off -site flows from the townhouses will be routed through the swale
or pipe/or combination. There cannot be a retro-active condition
on Indian Hills West Village.
Ms. Whetstone said if Indian Hills West were to propose something
that would add more than 350 square feet of impervious surface, it
would require a drainage report and an administrative change, which
would be referred to storm water.
Mr. Hamdan said if there were a significant change, they would have
to go through the process and be reviewed against today's
requirements.
Member Strom asked about the traffic geometry with access to Stuart
Street. Is it reasonable to assume that they meet City standards?
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 38
Ms. Whetstone said the Transportation Department required some
restriping of Stuart and turn lanes for the PUD. It would meet
requirements of traffic volumes.
Mr. Herzig said the specifics of the street plan have not been
reviewed. In older neighborhood areas, they often do not meet
current City standards for streets. The question would be whether
or not it would function safely. At this location the intersection
will work with sidewalks, proper site distances and visibility. It
doesn't necessarily mean that it meets City standards but it will
work when the departments are finished reviewing and approving the
plans. The safety standards are not being compromised, rather they
are reviewing issues of maintenance and construction methods
affecting the City.
Member Walker had a question regarding Lot #40, with a drainage
easement to the property line and some question about the
development plans. Will that be vacant land?
Mr. Prouty said that the plat reflects a 6-foot drainage easement
to the property line which would have to be respected, i.e., not
buildings, patio are o.k.
Mr. Walker observed that scale and bulk of buildings on site #40
and #47 are extremely close to the property line, particularly site
#47, near Ware house. For accountability sake, he suggested that
they be limited to single -story structures for compatibility to
Bush Court residents. He also asked Ms. Whetstone the latest
report,of the street width and parking widths of the project.
Ms. Whetstone said there are two variances being reviewed by the
City. Either a variance from eight feet parking widths (City
standard) to seven feet widths or variance to the sidewalk from
four feet (City standard) to three feet. There is a memo of May
23, 1994, in the Board's packet reflecting staff s decision for the
variance justification. The code allows the variance because of
the infill nature and set development patterns established and
existing utilities. Either are satisfactory from a Planning
Department view. At this time, the Engineering Department doesn't
support the variance to the parking, but does support the sidewalk
variance.
Vice -Chair Cottier asked about the variances connected with this
project.
Ms. Whetstone said the only thing that Planning is looking at is
the sidewalk width. A right-of-way variance was granted at
preliminary. Within the row is a standard 36-foot wide street with
offsets for parking alternating with landscaping. The sidewalk is
located in the right-of-way, as is standard.
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 39
Member Klataske asked if there was concern for parking or concern
for the turning radius of the street?
Ms. Whetstone said her understanding of the concern over the
parking was potential encroachment into the 20 foot drive isle,
required by the Fire Department. The on -street parking spaces will
be of a concrete material as opposed to asphalt. It will be will
delineated from the drive aisles. Planning staff believes that
there is enough evidence from other cities to support the 7-foot
request, and there would not be encroachment into the drive aisles.
Member Winfree asked if there were sidewalks on both sides of the
street throughout the project?
Ms. Whetstone said yes. There are some areas where there are even
detached walks.
Member Fontana commented that her preference would be to reduce the
parking widths and she would go along with the parking variance.
Member Fontana moved for approval of the Indian Hills village PUD,
Final, with conditions of staff including the variance for parking
width.
Member Strom asked if .she would accept a friendly amendment that
Lots #40 and #47 be restricted to single story houses.
Member Fontana approved the suggested amendment.
Member Strom seconded the motion.
vice -Chair Cottier asked if the June 3, 1994, draft commitments
made by the applicant could be attached to the development
agreement?
Mr. Eckman said he would make sure that this was done, although it
could be included as a condition. Was it the parking variance in
the motion? You can condition that with the staff being in
agreement with the developer and the neighborhood as outlined in
the latter in the development agreement.
Member Fontana agreed.
Member Strom seconded.
Member Walker said this project is interesting in the sense that it
is a different approach to housing in Fort Collins, and how street
widths were mitigated. Something like this is how we can work with
• the neighbors and how we can begin to build a compact city. There
are some fine attributes that may show how housing will be
approached in the future.
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 40
Member Winfree said she would be supporting the motion and it is
not in any way to minimize the concerns that have been brought out
about the members of the neighborhood. The concerns are
legitimate. Mr. Prouty has taken strides to cover each and every
concern brought out and addressed. This property is somewhat
difficult to develop and a lot of things have taken into
consideration in the design.
Member Strom asked if light intensity and scale would be addressed?
Ms. Whetstone said that staff has encouraged the applicant to
discuss this with Light and Power. Staff will support them by
meeting with the applicant and Light and Power. The lighting for
public streets is typically designed by Light and Power, who have
certain standards that have not been backed down on as yet. The
applicant would like to pursue this with them and Planning staff
will give support. She said the lamps used in residential areas
have the capability of shields to control the lighting areas. The
neighbor's concern will be looked into and shields recommended
where needed.
Member Strom recalled there were lesser lighting standards of
intensity on Harmony Road, is that a standardized process, or
specific to this project?
Ms. Whetstone said Light and Power already has a reduced lighting
design for residential areas, but there is not a process in the
works for how individual developers to come in and require another
system, which might change the inventory of bulbs from what they
have now. Perhaps, as there are more of these projects, this would
be more realistic. There currently is not a process in place to
make a variance to City lighting standards. The Planning staff
will work on that.
Member Strom said with the agreement of the maker of the motion, he
suggest that a condition be added to encourage lesser lighting
intensity and that the staff work on that. He withdrew it because
there is provision under the June 1, 1994, draft. Informally, he
encouraged the staff to work with the developers on this issue of
lighting.
Vice -Chair Cottier recalled when the intensity of Harmony lighting
was reduced, it was based on other cities minimum standards. Could
the City request a minimum residential lighting as has been done in
other cities?
Ms. Whetstone said it was a good point and would be looked into.
Motion passed 6-0.
Meeting adjourned at 11:12 p.m.