HomeMy WebLinkAboutNatural Resources Advisory Board - Minutes - 03/17/2004MINUTES
CITY OF FORT COLLINS
NATURAL RESOURCES ADVISORY BOARD
SPECIAL MEETING
281 N. COLLEGE AVENUE
March 17, 2004
For Reference: Nate Donovan, NRAB Chair -
472-1599
Eric Hamrick, Council Liaison -
225-2343
John Stokes, Staff Liaison -
221-6263
Board Members Present
Nate Donovan, Arvind Panjabi, Randy Fischer, Clint Skutchan, Ryan Staychock, Linda
Knowlton, Joann Thomas
Board Members Absent
Gerry Hart, Glen Colton
Staff Present
Natural Resources Dept: Mark Sears, John Stokes, Terry Klahn, Rick Bachand
Guests
David Shelley, CSU Student
David Wright, Executive Director of Citizen Planners
Northern Integrated Supply Project, Northern Colorado Water Conservancy
District, Don Carlson, Nicole Seltzer, Brian Werner
Carlson, Seltzer and Werner provided some background information and briefly reviewed
project details.
• Knowlton: Why are we getting this briefing? What is our role? Do we need to advise
Council?
• Stokes: The District asked if they could come. This project may have natural resource
impacts. It's early in the planning process, but we wanted the board to become more
familiar with the project.
• Staychock: This report talks about other studies, dredging and fixing the current
reservoirs, but says they're not ok because of fatal flaws. What are the fatal flaws?
• Seltzer: There's a whole list of fatal flaws; cant get a permit, technically infeasible,
and costs, are a few.
• Staychock: Where did the 500 acre foot number come from?
• Carlson: If a project yield was 500 acre feet or less it was considered too costly. The
idea is that some of these might come into play to meet a need and be add-ons. That's
what Denver and Thornton are doing now. They're looking at developing gravel pits.
Some day, that might be the case here.
Natural Resources Advisory Board
March 17, 2004
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• Panjabi: In terms of surface area and land flooded, what is the comparative with
Horsetooth? Would this be shallower?
• Seltzer: Horsetooth is six miles long, this reservoir is five miles long
• Panjabi: How much state owned land would be flooded?
• Seltzer: Not much. They own a parcel in the middle. I think its 600 acres out of 2900.
The hogback would not be underwater. There would be a spine down the middle of
the reservoir.
• Knowlton: You hardly mention the highway and the costs of doing that.
• Seltzer: Its in the full report. It's a US Highway, but the state operates it. We've met
with CDOT and explained the project. We'll develop a MOU. They would be
involved in every aspect of the highway relocation.
• Panjabi: What about recreation?
• Seltzer: It's very open ended. There are water quality concerns about motor boats.
The preference might be to go non -motorized
• Fischer: Explain the rationale for building a 177,000 acre storage facility when you
only need 40,000 acres of firm storage.
• Seltzer: The water rights in the Poudre are junior rights. They're not available every
year. The reservoir needs to be seven times larger than what we need to take care of
years when there's not much water.
• Werner: The numbers of dry up land acres are disturbing, land that will go out of ag in
the next fifty years.
• Skutchan: There is some concern metro Denver will come up.
• Setlzer: The next junior right is Thornton. The water will go down to the Denver
metro area. We'll lose the ability to chart our own course. If we keep the water up
here we'll have a say.
• Skutchan: So, no action on our part would equal action on their part?
• Werner: Yes.
• Skutchan: If we don't capture this water it's almost a guarantee that Thornton will take
it.
• Fischer: I want to make sure all board members get a chance to ask questions. Also
the Sierra Club has studied this extensively. I'd like to allow David to speak too.
• Donovan: After the members have had their chance to comment.
• Knowlton: I only count 11 participants in the funding mechanism
• Carlson: The total cost of the project is around $350 million, $13 million is for the
highway.
• Werner: We're working with the cement plant. There's a haul road that may be usable
with engineering and construction.
• Stokes: Where does that wing back to 287?
• Werner: It's immediately north of the reservoir.
• Fischer: The topography in the executive summary looks like it meets the old
highway before the big turn to get to Own Canyon. That raises concerns for Roberts
Ranch.
• Stokes: It's south of Roberts Ranch
Natural Resources Advisory Board
March 17, 2004
Page 3 of 5
• Setlzer: The intersection of Highways 14 and 287 is a real problem for CDOT.
They're looking forward to not having that problem anymore.
• Staychock: You mentioned the total cost if $350 million. Is that just for Glade?
• Seltzer: That's the whole project.
• Panjabi: I have a number of concerns about the environmental impacts that have been
identified. It's a high quality native ecosystem which is unique and would be lost.
That's a loss to the people of Fort Collins.
• Panjabi: There's a statement about bells twin pod habitat and I'd like to point out a
correction. That's a species of global concern. There's also a loss of 700 acres of
native prairie. Native prairie is one of the most threatened habitats in North America.
• Parijabi: Could you elaborate on the suspected impacts of the depletions to the Platte
River?
• Werner: Any depletion in any tributary has an impact. The endangered species project
has plans in place that will address those issues. Right now the only way that can be
mitigated is by funding the foundation that the Fish and Wildlife Service operates.
Each state will only be allowed so many acre feet of depletion.
• Panjabi: Do you know what they're doing with the money?
• Staychock: Getting back to the costs. These are fairly high costs for the small towns,
Berthoud, Evans, and Erie. Do the citizens understand these costs? If they default
what could happen? Can Thornton come up and buy water rights to Glade?
• Seltzer: Each participant will fund it in their own way.
• Skutchan: You mentioned the Seaman Reservoir. Is that off the board?
• Carlson: Seaman is owned by the City of Greeley. It survived the screening process to
the very end. It's critical habitat for the prebles jumping mouse. Greeley was part of
this project early on. Their future needs are out there fifteen years or so, they're
pursuing enlarging Seaman on their own.
• Seltzer: The enlargement Greeley is anticipating is much smaller than what we're
looking at.
• Carlson: Greeley is also looking at the Halligan expansion. If Fort Collins and
Greeley work together there are many opportunities to operate all three projects. The
next step is to go through an alternative analysis and look at aquatic resources. The
ACOE is interested in aquatic resources.
• Wright: This new site would affect natural resources, and it would affect you. These
people want to grab the last un-appropriated water in the Poudre River. The amount
of recharge in the Poudre valley has decreased the last 16 years. There may not be
enough water to fill this reservoir because of that. We all know the Poudre for its ebb
and flow. If has life. If the last little flow is taken, for the rest of time the Poudre is a
trickle. It doesn't have life. We all know the ebb and flow is what gives it its life.
When it drops to a trickle the eco system is disrupted. When the final batch of water is
taken the ebb and flow will end. The actual building will have environmental impacts.
I'm concerned it cant be filled. Paying for it is by far the single biggest issue. The
water is being developed for the purpose of enabling, accommodating and subsidizing
future growth. Sixty four percent of folks in Fort Collins consider rapid growth a big
issue facing Fort Collins. They will pay for something they don't even want. Each
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March 17, 2004
Page 4 of 5
community has to come up with a certain amount of funding. Berthoud presently has
$3 million in service debt for their water. Two years ago they couldn't pay so they
had to double their water fees. They're into this project for $10 million more. Where
will they get it?
• Skutchan: These are opinions, you mentioned a study that was done. What is it?
• Wright: My concern is largely economic. This has to be paid for. Each community is
in the same vulnerable position. If the town of Erie commits to this and to Windy Gap,
they're committed to 30 years of a high rate of growth. There are red flags that I think
make this project vulnerable. I appreciate the opportunity to speak. This is immensely
complex, these things will affect us all.
• Donovan: It's not common for people other than board members and presenters to
speak. We did have the Fort Collins Chamber of Commerce president speak about a
proposal. It doesn't happen very often.
• Skutchan: If its allowed it has to be on point. We need to be careful.
• Panjabi: He raised important points that hadn't been brought up before. There could be
long term impacts on riparian systems. Scouring is essential. With out excess flow
you'll have more invasive species.
• Carlson: We've modeled this for a long time. It's all relative to the location of the
water rights along the river. Its very difficult to make a generalization. There are
senior water rights downstream, this is a junior water right. It's a complex question
that needs studied. We want to understand the issues. We've talked to David, and
appreciate his interest in the project.
• Seltzer: We are limited by the amount of water we can take at one time.
• Werner: We wouldn't build a reservoir if we couldn't put water in it.
• Werner: We can come back and talk any time you want.
Nate Donovan and Arvind Panjabi would like copies of the draft EIS.
Ranger Program Update, Rick Bachand
Bachand showed a power point presentation providing history and current information
and statistics regarding the ranger program.
• Fischer: Do you think the increase in citations at Pineridge and Maxwell are because
the rangers spend more time there or the size of the area?
• Bachand: We do spend a lot of time there. We target areas we know are problems.
• Fischer: How would CFP compare?
• Bachand: It's less than ten citations annually.
• Skutchan: The rangers need to be marked better from behind.
• Skutchan: Press releases need to be better. They get a bit confusing, and are sort of
stated ambiguously.
• Bachand: We'll work on that.
• Fischer: Are there problems at Pulliam?
• Bachand: Nothing significant, no real resource damage.
• Staychock: I was impressed with the rangers at the Trails meeting. These guys were
in tune to impacts and involved with the County and visitors.
Natural Resources Advisory Board
March 17, 2004
Page 5 of 5
Ryan Staychock made the following motion:
As authorized by City Code Section 2-31 (a) (3), I move to go into executive session for the
purpose of consideration of water and real property acquisitions and sales by the City, restricted
to consideration of appraisals and other value estimates and the consideration of strategy for the
acquisition or sale of such property.
The motion was seconded by Randy Fischer and passed unanimously.
The executive session lasted one hour.
The meeting was adjourned at 9:05 p.m.
Submitted by Terry Klahn
Admin Support Supervisor
Approved at the regular meeting of the Natural Resources Advisory Board May 5,
2004.