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HomeMy WebLinkAboutAir Quality Advisory Board - Minutes - 10/21/2004MINUTES CITY OF FORT COLLINS AIR QUALITY ADVISORY BOARD REGULAR MEETING 281 N. COLLEGE AVE. October 21, 2004 For Reference: Linda Stanley, Chair 493-7225 Eric Hamrick, Council Liaison 226-4824 Lucinda Smith, Staff Liaison 224-6085 Board Members Present Ken Moore, Linda Stanley, Cherie Trine, Katie Walters, Nancy York Board Members Absent Jim Dennison, John Long Staff Present Natural Resources Department: Sandy Hicks, Lucinda Smith, Liz Skelton Utilities: Doug Swartz City Managers Office: Ann Tumquist Guests None The meeting was called to order at 5:33 p.m. Minutes With the following changes, the minutes of the September 16, 2004 meeting were unanimously approved: • York (Page 5, Emissions Testing): Please mention when Ken excuses himself, and when he returns to the room (Page 9). • Walters (Page 8, Bullet 16, Sentence 3, Emissions Testing): Strike "They", replace with "College students". • Stanley (Page 7, Last Bullet, Sentence 1, Emissions Testing): Strike "mandatory", replace with "voluntary". • Stanley (Page 5, Bullet 3): Quote should be credited to Lucinda Smith. New Home Stakeholder Group Recommendations Doug Swartz, Energy Services Engineer from the Utilities Department, presented an overview of the Evaluation of New Home Energy Efficiency Study released in May 2004. Doug handed out a copy of the report and also the informational buyer's guide packet called ""at to Look for in a New Home ". • Stanley: How long ago was it that we heard about the energy efficiency study? • Swartz: A couple of years, I believe. • Stanley:We were bummed ummed about that, that 90% of homes... • York: None of them! • Swartz: I wouldn't be that pessimistic, but there were a lot of problems. Air Quality Advisory Board 10/21/04 Page 2 of 14 • Stanley (Re: 1500 High Performance Homes built in Colorado in 2004): Do you know what percentage that is? • Swartz: 1500 seems like a lot, but in terms of statewide, it is about 3% of housing starts. It doesn't seem like a lot, but it is better than zero. We are looking to accelerate the rate of change; we want 60% by 2010. • Stanley: How do you get the information to consumers? • Swartz: A variety of ways. It is available in print and on the website (coloradonewhomeChoices.org), we tell them about it when we talk to people on the phone, we also give it out at presentations, new home tours, and home & garden shows. I'm open to suggestions for how to reach people. Our specific target is new home buyers, but we are willing to talk to anyone, because everyone knows other people. • York: What kind of media exposure have you had? • Swartz: We've had a few newspaper and radio spots regarding the home tours. We haven't got as much as we would like to have. • Stanley: Have you done anything on Channel 27? • Swartz: Not yet, we probably should. • Stanley: People `poopoo' Channel 27., but I hear about people saying "I saw so-and-so on there" all the time. • Swartz: I'm going to be on the Home is on the Range show on KRFC next Monday. • Stanley: Is Jim Williams still on KUNC? • Swartz: Yes, we had a story done by him. He was the best reporter I've talked to by far. We did a kick off awareness event and he stayed with us for the whole 2 hours. • York: You might get the Home Builders Association (HBA) to talk to the Coloradoan. They have certain influences that we don't have. • Swartz: When we did the report, there was a lot of tension between the City and the HBA. We've worked through that. They realized there were benefits for them. They've become good supporters of this effort. • Stanley: What about mortgage people? • Swartz: We tried to get mortgage, real estate, appraisal, and insurance industries involved. They are on the list, and they came to some of the meetings. What we learned is they won't be leaders in this process. It will have to be consumer driven to get a foothold in that area. • Walters: Are some companies willing to put the information in model homes? • Swartz: Yes, I should have mentioned the builders have supplies of these brochures and give them out to their customers. All these things will take time. The housing market doesn't change course quickly. • Stanley: So much of it is national too. • Swartz: Yes, some of it is national. The good news is the ship is turning. This is not an overnight kind of thing. It will take a lot of work; we're off to a good start. • Stanley: How soon do you think that some sort of certification program might come into being? I know there is Built Green and Energy Star, but you talked about doing something more consistent. • Swartz: It's hard to say. The existing ones are quite invested in themselves. Built Green has the highest market penetration but it doesn't really address most of the issues that we are talking about. It is based largely on resource conservation, but it doesn't address the performance issues. They have recently added, at least on paper, two Air Quality Advisory Board 10/21/04 Page 3 of 14 performance tiers. They are hoping to move their builders towards performance tiers, which is consistent with what we are trying to promote. So that's a good sign. Whether these things will ever coalesce into a single label remains to be seen. We're hoping people will come to the conclusion that it is worth giving up some of these labels to get a really meaningful label. Because, I know City of Fort Collins isn't going to get behind a label until we see substance. There aren't any out there yet that we are comfortable with. • Stanley: I know that on Economic Vitality and Sustainability Action Group (EVSAG), one of the tactics underneath one of the strategies has to do with having green building in Fort Collins. I would like to se something happen with respect to that. We have such great resources, such as CSU. I see the classes in Denver to get builders better educated. Why not here? • Swartz: I'm quite sure they are doing the same thing here. We need to coordinate what they are doing with what our organization is doing. It's kind of a smattering of stuff, and it is all good stuff, but it is not nearly as effective as it could be if we were all working more in unison and in the same direction. A green building program will be much more effective if it happens regionally or statewide. It takes a lot of resources to develop and support a program like that. • York: Should you have Channel 27 put together a documentary about the program and that could be sent to architectural schools and business schools. Mortgage companies should be able to see the reduction in energy costs. • Swartz: Energy cost is definitely a driver. People are starting to pay attention. • Stanley: On Channel 27 you could have a 10 minute thing on how to buy a new energy efficient house. • Hicks: You could call it "This New House". • Stanley: That's great! I think that's a good way to reach people. They are more likely to watch if it is going to help them. • Walters: I would bet that lenders and real estate agents, if people go to them and say "this is what I want" they will go hmmm... that is where it will start: with consumers. • Moore: Say, "You've all heard about high performance computers, airplanes, cars... here is a high performance home." • Swartz: It is a hard concept to get across to people who've never heard that before. That seems to be the term that organizations come back to. We need to figure out how to communicate that most effectively. • York: You're mentioning "This New Home"; you could also network with PBS who does "This Old Home" and make it a national thing. That also makes me think of the repair and remodeling industry and meeting some of these same goals. • Swartz: That's a great question. If you look at what is out there, it is old homes. The reason we've chosen to focus on new homes is because you can build these home with almost no additional cost. The sad thing is, to fix these problems in existing homes costs thousands of dollars. The economic hurdle is much higher. However, EPA has developed a program called Home Performance with Energy Star, which is trying to bundle remodeling services along these same lines. They have pilot -tested this program for two years in a few states, including Colorado. There is an advisory group that has been formed. There is a little bit -of EPA money coming in. The initial pilot test is going to be in Colorado Springs. We're a member of the advisory group, and we're pushing hard to bring it to Northern Colorado as well. My expectation is we are going Air Quality Advisory Board 10/21/04 Page 4 of 14 to be putting some resources to support something like that here. The basic gist of it is to recruit contractors who are very successful business people already, who can take what they already know and add more components, so for the consumer it becomes a one stop shopping experience. Someone who is very knowledgeable comes into their home, does a whole house analysis, prioritizes the needs, and sells the job and gets it done. The average size job has been about $7000. This is a place where the City of Fort Collins may be able to step in with some financing help. • York: $7000? • Swartz: $7000 dollars. It is lot more than people are used to spending for energy retrofits. The results can be much more beneficial though, because they are taking a much more holistic approach. A lot of it is teaching contractors how to sell these services. • York: I don't think $7000 is a lot. Today... I think $7000 is all right. I would sign up. • Smith: Do you feel that the time is more ripe for green building or certification program in the residential sector? What do you think about the commercial sector and the potential for more defined green building program there? • Swartz: Well it depends on what you mean by green building program. If you think about LEED, which is a national building certification program sponsored by the US Green Building Council, that's become the defacto green building standard. • Smith: I realize now what I was really asking was not about the certification standard, but the ability to promote it through incentives or guidelines? • Swartz: I can't say I've thought as hard about that in recent years. The two sectors are fairly parallel. Different stakeholders play different roles. The root issues are probably all the same. Awareness is a huge piece of it. There have been huge changes in the past 5 years. There is good work being done. • Hicks: I think it's interesting that LEED does focus more on new construction, but they just came out with LEED-EB for existing buildings. • Swartz: LEED also looking at a residential label. • Hicks: For commercial it has become a standard. • Swartz: It's amazing to me how fast the market is changing. • York: When I read this, the question about radon popped in to my mind; it's not named in this thing "the Healthy Areas". • Swartz: It's not named explicitly. Everything we are promoting is congruent with radon control. • Stanley: What can the AQAB do to help this along? • Swartz: Talk to people you know. That's the best thing you can do. Send people to the website. That's why we are here tonight, to spread the awareness. • Stanley: Do you have plenty of resources in terms of Fort Collins Utilities giving resources towards keeping this going? • Swartz: Our view on this is we want to continue to be a strong player. We aren't in the position to be a statewide leader. We have got the ball rolling, we can't, with either staff or money, be a leader, and it's not appropriate that we would be the leader. We want to bring resources to the table along with other organizations that are participating in this effort. We also feel that by collaborating more we can leverage more resources out of federal funding sources. At Yfiis point, the dollar resources are not a constraint. People time is the biggest constraint. We will be looking for more money down the Air Quality Advisory Board 10/21/04 Page 5 of 14 road. It's tempting to go out and just look for money, but what we decided was we wanted to develop the action plans to the point where people could see the value in those and want to put money toward that effort. • York: Were you part of the solar tour? • Swartz: We had our materials at the solar tour. I was in New Hampshire. That's a good example of opportunities we try to look for to piggyback on. • York: I like the idea of "This Old House" and doing something with PBS. • Stanley: I know it's a national magazine, but Natural Home Magazine is right out of Loveland and they look for stories. Often times they focus on homes built in Colorado. • Swartz: That's a good idea. We actually had a great article in Lydia's Style Magazine. It was a green building article. • Walters: I saw that. BOB (Building on Basics) Ann Turnquist presented an update on the sales tax extension that will be coming on the ballot on April. There are two sales taxes up for extension. This is the renewal of the Building Community Choices sales taxes that were passed by citizens in 1997. There were three quarter -cent taxes, and one was renewed through Open Space Yes. The two left expire at the end of 2005. • Stanley (Re: Public outreach): I just have to say that it makes my blood boil. The citizen outreach was so biased. It was all Rotary Club and Chamber; there were no environmental groups. • Turnquist: We didn't have any luck getting them to respond. We went to Sierra Club... they said that they will get back to us. • Stanley: OK, then it doesn't make my blood boil as much. • Turnquist: We tried; because we are aware that those were areas that... • Stanley: I'm sorry; then they blew it. I take it back. • Turnquist: We need to keep trying. • York: What about Citizen Planners? • Tumquist: I talked to Citizen Planners and we got mailing lists and sent individual invitations for our open houses. That's how we tried to fill in gaps when we couldn't get groups; with mailing lists and sending individual invitations. We had reasonably good attendance. We think overall we had 850 contacts with citizens. We gave that feedback to Council. Their goal is to narrow this `shorter' list. It still is way too much for the amount of money we have available. • York: Does it correspond with the list that we have? • Turnquist: Yes, with one exception: at the September 14`h meeting we asked if they could narrow the list at all, and the only thing they could agree was not to put a new performing arts center or a new downtown library on this package because each of those projects was $40 million dollars. They agreed that this was not the time, the economy was not right, and there were so many tax issues. The difference between the handout you got in your packet and this list is, this list does not have the performing arts center or the library. • York: What did you say the tax would bring in? • Turnquist: At'/4 cent, we're talking about $50 million dollars over 10 years. It's a little over $5 million a year. We are trying to be conservative with the economic situation. Air Quality Advisory Board 10/21/04 Page 6 of 14 • Stanley (Re: Citizen support): I don't think you'll have any trouble. • Turnquist: It depends on the package. • York: It does depend on the package, because people are upset. • Stanley: Last time you asked it was 66, 68 and 70? • Tumquist: It was high; it was a wide margin, but it was a different time. The economy was in good shape, and we didn't have a libertarian tax measure on the ballot at the same time. We've lost two transportation sales tax measures in the last two years. Even though this is different, this is renewal; I think we are at risk from that. Even though there are projects on here that are so desperately needed. It will depend on the campaign, and that's a citizen issue. Get citizens to step forward and say "this is a good way to finance capital improvements". • Stanley: You'll get a minimum of 60%. • Turnquist: I hope you're right. • Stanley: Of course, 60% will repeal the grocery tax and you'll be back where you started. • Tumquist: It is a scary time. The employees are saying, "what services will you cut? Will that mean me?" It will be a tense six -months or so until that gets resolved. • Moore: I would love to collect sales tax. That means I'm making some sales! Right now it is really bad. • York: Another thing is that Councilman Roy is pulling together a group of people to look at Mason Street corridor. I hope that he is working towards an initiative to put it on the ballot. I don't know that that is true. • Tumquist: I haven't heard it in terms of something soon. • York: I know there is going to be a meeting November 20. • Tumquist: The ballot language has to be set for the April election by February 15` From a selfish perspective, we've been working on this for 18 months already and the more competing issues that we have, the more likely all of them will lose. It splits the vote. There are a couple of Mason transportation corridor projects on this list. They are minor ones... • York: Bicycles, right? • Turnquist: The bike trail from Spring Creek to Laurel; that goes under Prospect, and then the underpass under the railroad tracks at Troutman. Those are two small pieces of Mason transportation corridor that our analysis says that wouldn't kill a package. We are concerned about that, because we got a lot of feedback in last two transportation measures, that people voted against it because of Mason. Even though it was not a large amount of the package. • Stanley: I didn't realize that they did very effective TV ads against Mason Street. I was a Comcast the other day; they showed me the TV commercial from that. It was pretty damning. • Walters: Part of it is, if you can whittle the list down and work on culture, arts and parks and recreation; I think those are the things that people have a hard time saying no to. Who's going to tell the Senior Center they can't have a bigger place? • Stanley: I think a lot of people. _ • Walters: I think it appeals to peoples' emotions more than some of the transportation. • Stanley: I bet with the survey, you'll see transportation. Air Quality Advisory Board 10/21/04 Page 7 of 14 • Tumquist: Especially the specific projects, those are coming to the top of the list. Things like Timberline from Drake to Prospect. Some of those will be very appealing too. And yet those were in the last package. • Stanley: Will they ask for more board input? • Tumquist: I expect that they will. The reason is they've got to a point where they don't know what to do. They have too many projects and not enough money. Of these last few projects, they're looking for what they can get rid of and live without. It may be that it is a quick turnaround. Those study sessions come about one month apart. Or, the boards can always send something out of sync of any feedback that Council asks for; we appreciate that feedback because they do get stuck. It is a hard thing. Competing interests are intense. • York: One of the thought I had about the Mason Street corridor, is that it became a `Cadillac' project. It's the same way with some of the parks. If there could be an appeal to some of this, to streamline, not make it Cadillac, but functional. But just not so expensive. And have the projects cut to see if they can't whittle them down. • Turn: We've actually spent a lot of time talking about that at the staff level. There are a couple projects that I would agree with you that are in that category, like the recreation center at Fossil Creek. They don't want a little one. They are saying, "If we are going to build it, let's build it". That is not likely to get funded at $21 million dollars. That is a big chunk of the pie. A lot of these other projects have been through the wringer a number of times; especially road projects. We've pushed those numbers pretty hard because they've been on the ballot before. When you look at Timberline; they are building to standards, they've found money from developers, and they are doing that. I think they have pushed pretty hard on these numbers. You don't want to cut too hard because then you lose things like bike lanes and pedestrian improvements. They won't take away the road lanes. Our standards are there for a reason; because we want to have bike lanes and pedestrian facilities, but it makes the project more expensive. • York: I know you've got to have sidewalks. I looked over this list and the thing that ran through my mind; I have a certain bias; I see that we are going to move to a functional public transit. It is more sustainable than to be continually widening. Or once widened, pave and maintain the roads. Because that is an unsustainable bottomless pit. The other thing is the cost of the materials is only going to go through the roof. Just the economics of fossil fuels and then of course they will come up with more efficient vehicles; I don't know how long we can do that. • Stanley: A whole '/4 cent is going into pavement management. That's only going to get bigger over time. • York: Then if we continue to build these intersections; it would be good to know which ones will be cement. There is a limit to cement too, but at least cement has long lifetime. • Tumquist: It's easier to drive on. • York: hi my mind I was thinking this is skewed so the projects that are built, are built with the intention of transit connections; to look way down in the future. I know there are people that say 98% ride their cars and we want to spend all this money for 2%. That was the argument they used for Fastracks. Fastracks, if that passes, then we by golly should get on the tracks. -- • Stanley: If that passes, then more people will start riding because it will be more convenient. Air Quality Advisory Board 10/21/04 Page 8 of 14 • Tumquist: Trains are much more attractive to people than buses. • York: And they are sustainable. Buses replace tires often; those steel iron wheels that trains use last a very long time. Actually that would be what I would say is, this should be put through the sustainability test. • Tumquist: There are several projects that would fit that category. The replacement buses, that's one of those necessities. They have to get matching money. • Stanley: Is that with cleaner buses? I can't remember. • Moore: Ken Maranon and Tracy Ochsner talked to us about that. • Tumquist: This would be to replace them on a schedule of 500,000 miles. The new vehicles for the transit fleet is an expensive one because, it's matched by federal money, but the operation and maintenance is tremendously expensive. It is an additional $1 million dollars because if it is new buses for new routes, then that is new ongoing costs. That's going to be the big question with that project is how to fund the additional routes. Also, the last section, by the pedestrian enhancements, we've got $7 million dollars for continuing the bike program. That's adding lanes and capacity. It's a lot, but I think they're going to want these projects to balance out the road projects. Of course the road projects also have bike and pedestrian facilities in them so they are multimodal. It is substantial amounts of money, but it could make a big difference. • Stanley: Where's the traffic signal replacement? • Tumquist: There's some more things to add to the system that they bought, that would improve functions, and give additional pieces of information. Those cameras at intersections, you would be able to put that on the Web. Those kinds of enhancements to help traffic move better. It's not expanding the system to additional intersections. It's more technology to make system work more effective. • Stanley: I assume that intersection improvement for traffic signals is for existing intersections that aren't covered by the street oversizing. • Tumquist: Right, in the agenda packet there is a list of all intersections that are on the list. They aren't prioritized though. • Stanley: So they would pick 3 or 4? • Tumquist: Right. They kept it as a pool to take advantage of the opportunity. They have the flexibility to address what comes up. • Stanley: I personally, since City Council has a study session coming up Nov 301h, I'd like to see us discuss this in more depth and make a recommendation. We didn't schedule enough time tonight. Is that alright? I can make sure I get the memo done quickly enough. • Tumquist: If you can it done the Wednesday prior to the study session; we will go to print with the agenda item and if I have it in time I'll put it with the agenda item. • Stanley: We may need somebody here. • Tumquist: Let us know; I'm sure we can find somebody to provide more information. • Stanley: Somebody who is unbiased. • Tumquist: The interesting part of this project team is we've got people from many departments and then some `unaffiliateds' to balance out some of those things. It's going to get more tense as we get closer. You can only do this once every 8 years. You've got to be in there pitching for your stuff. • Stanley: Parks should be happy that we just got two new parks. With the amount of annual maintenance on those... Air Quality Advisory Board 10/21/04 Page 9 of 14 • Tumquist: I think their priorities are community parks and neighborhoods. They have the recreation center and senior center, but renovations are the priorities. One of the major ones is to go into City Park and redo the whole core of that park with the pool and railroad; it is a pedestrian nightmare. They want to put the parking out towards the edges of the park. • York: But then it's close to the road. • Tumquist: Well, you've got to have some place to put the parking. People still have to get there. • Trine: As a former daycare mom, I like it the way it was, with the driving through. I don't see the traffic as that bad. I wish you would put the big slide back in. Those people way heck out got the deluxe park and the people in Old Town got crap, frankly. • Tumquist: I think that's really why they want to renovate. • Trine: Why renovate? Put in a slide. • York: It might be an area that we could economize. When I was a kid, the world was my playground. We always go for the fancy stuff. • Trine: Everything is a bumpy slide now. Those hurt. That old slide was amazing. • York: Maybe a suggestion would be to have stakeholders weigh in on certain things. • Trine: We drive to Loveland because they have such better kid stuff. We are polluting the air to drive to Loveland. You wish they could put a real pool in. • York: Get the train going between Fort Collins and Loveland. • Trine: Kid's stuff is a major deal. People do things to play with their kids. People get bored with the pool. • York: Daycare places would be a good stakeholders group to talk about parks. Maybe we can trim down costs. • Trine: Landscaping is not as important as a good slide. • Walters: Part of that is when you see the traffic improvements; civil engineers are focused on technical issues and aren't thinking about the fundamentals. They should consider the actual users of the park. • Trine: They should get a daycare mom in on their planning group. I can tell them what would be a hit. • Tumquist: The Parks and Recreation Board have been doing the Southwest community park, and they have gotten earfuls from different stakeholders; that's been an interesting process because the plans have changed a lot. • Moore: When I was a kid, we went to City Park or Library Park. • Trine: Sometimes simple is better. • Walters: Everyone should look at list and we should focus on the transportation because of air quality, but some of these tie into transportation like the recreation center because citizens will be driving across town to get there. • Smith: Who from Transportation is on the BOB team? • Tumquist: Ron Phillips, Don Bachman, and sometimes Tom Frazier. • Smith: Who is the representative from CPES? • Tumquist: Joe Frank. • Smith: Thanks. Emissions Testing Update Air Quality Advisory Board 10/21/04 Page 10 of 14 Lucinda Smith passed out memo summarizing new updates. Lucinda said the Clean Air Team continues to work on potential alternative VOC reduction strategies to help gain a margin of safety for ozone. • York: So this 47% false failures, is that out of the 13%? • Smith: Yes, so it's a small pool. I don't have the actual numbers, but I can easily look them up. • Moore: You could take the failures and those who didn't show and check to see if they had an I/M test and see how they did on the I/M as some indication as to whether they were `yeah' or `nay'. • Smith: They do have some other plans to boost participation. One is the stricter letter and the other is they will add two valid hits and combine it with the high emitter index. Altogether, they think they will get more participation in the program next summer. • Walters (Re: Gas cap replacement program): Do they use a portable detector? • Moore: They have testers that you put the gas cap on and test to see if it holds pressure. If it hisses, you know it won't hold any hydrocarbons when the tank heats up and pushes the fumes out. • Stanley: How much is registration? • Smith: The total fee is $2.20. $1.50 goes to the health department and $.70 goes to the DMV. • Stanley: I know education gets a lot of play, but when it comes to vehicle maintenance, I don't think you get enough bang for your buck. • Walters: If you wanted to do something smaller, college students or even high school would be a good target area. Especially high school, the parents take care of it if they have a car. • Stanley: You have way more faith in college students than I do. • Walters: No, I know there is that hurdle as well, that they are apathetic. • Stanley: They are thinking about the opposite sex and parties. I've tried to do things in my classes to get them aware of programs in Fort Collins, but... • Walters: Relate it to..."you can't get to that party if your car breaks down!" • Stanley: Yes, you have to make it very personal and not about air quality. • York: I had a master mechanic live near me and he mentioned that he would like to do a little class on car maintenance; just simple things. There are a lot of single women and the thing is if you maintain your car, it lasts. You don't screw it up. Certainly that group of people and other conscientious individuals would do it. I don't know how you see that happening. • Walters: That would be something that if they came back and said we can only give you some money; that would be the best focus. • York: I like the emissions program because that's when I would focus on my own car. • Smith: Is it the mandatory nature of it? • York: Even this non -cost one. 1 would do that. That's because I care about the air quality. • Walters: Well that's where the problem is, that I would bet you the reason why half of them are false fails is because people can't believe they've done all of these things to maintain their car and it failed and they think "how can that be?". These are people who normally maintain their car and are so surprised when it fails. Air Quality Advisory Board 10/21/04 Page 11 of 14 • Stanley: That's true; those that show up are maintaining their car and want to know what happened. They think "Oh my gosh I can get $500" to get it repaired. They wonder what's wrong with it. Those that don't care aren't following up. • York: I think it's also a matter of time, because people are really pushed. It would depend when the time was. You have to get a rental car and you have a time constraint. • Smith: There is a hassle involved. There are a lot of things to consider in terms of what to do and what will work. • Walters (Re: Stage I Vapor Recovery for Gasoline fuel truck delivery and vapor reduction): My boss specifically explained that's in Denver and not up here. There is one person in my office, he is not in enforcement but if he sees someone without their return hose hooked up, he takes action. I think that's something that even City employees should consider. • Smith: I should talk more to your office and Poudre Fire Authority. When I last talked to PFA they said the state has primary enforcement authority. If we could ramp up... • Trine: Can we complain? • Smith: I think that you could. The thing is, would I know when I went there whether it was or wasn't happening ... is it obvious? • Walters: There are two hoses: one into the tank to put the gas in and a red hose. It's when they're putting the fuel into the tanks. When you drive into a fuel place there is a red manhole cover and the red hose is the return. It is sucking vapors back into the tank on the vehicle. • Moore: Does it go through a carbon canister or is it just displacing the air? • Walters: It just displaces air. It goes to vapor recovery companies. It is a benefit to the company because they are recovering some of that. • Trine: I wonder if communities who are around gas stations would be interested in that. My son had cancer when I lived across from a gas station. He was diagnosed with stage 4 at 8 months. I've heard there are some links to gas stations. I think that those communities would be interested in that. • Walters: I would say if you saw something like that to first go and talk to the store and then call Poudre. • Moore: One of the members of our committee, he said that if they catch the trucker, they let him know about it, but they are usually doing it at 3:00 am and no one is around to enforce it. • Stanley: Why wouldn't they use the vapor recovery system? • Moore: It's more time consuming. • Trine: Don't they have cameras? • Smith: There are a lot of ideas that we could check on to increase enforcement, or at least the use of the system. • Moore: Put the suppliers on notice. • Walters: It's such an easy way to prevent that stuff from getting out. It is such a large source too. When cars are doing it, it is much smaller, and they also have carbon filters in the tanks that do that. • Trine: This is the big area. _! Smith: This is obviously something we will work more on. Air Quality Advisory Board 10/21/04 Page 12 of 14 • Moore (Re: volatility of fuel): We are giving them two signals. We were saying we needed it in that Oxyfuel program for so many years and then we turn around and say nevermind. Face it, ethanol is cheaper than gasoline. • Stanley: So EPA just needs to get rid of that exemption. • Smith: You're right. There is huge pressure. • Moore: This one kills us in the middle of the winter, as an automotive repair shop. When the January temperature gets above 70 degrees we get a slew of "my car's stalling in the middle of traffic". The fuel is so volatile it is vapor locking. We tell them to wait a few days till it cools of and to try a different brand of gas. • Smith: The last thing is that the lawn mower analysis has a mistake; there were $5,100 for total costs. I initially did not factor in staff time, which was fairly minimal. City Process for Gaining Input on Health -Related Issues Cherie Trine wrote a proposal for recommendation (from the AQAB) to establish a Board of Health. • York: I think the proposal sounds good. • Trine: It's partly from talking to Torn; the City is upset about waiting for the County to do something. A board could help City Council make those decisions directly. I think they would have to find out for sure, if they could do that legally. Tom said to have City Council to ask that that be found out. • Smith: Even if you have three Council members make a request; that initiates that effort. • Trine: I did call David Roy, but I didn't call Eric Hamrick. • Stanley: Did he seem to be on board? • Trine: Well this is what I got out of it: he would like to hand it all over to County, let them make the decisions, and let them pay for it. To me, that is the worst possible thing because there is absolutely no public input and no information coming to the public. We would be totally cut out. They didn't larvacide. Our city did a good job. To me that is the worst possible choice. I think he is open to something else. • Walters: My only concern is they will get that and wonder why the AQAB is recommending it. Put something in there about the reason why we are concerned is that we've confronted these health issues numerous times, with radon, smoking, etc. • Trine: I don't want to cut out our input though. • Walters: No, I think there just needs to be more justification. • Stanley: We were always told we couldn't talk about the health impacts. • Walters: That would be a resource for us as well, because we could talk with them on issues just like we do with the NRAB. • Trine: I do say at beginning, "Because of the major health decisions..." but I could put radon and the other things. • York: Two things that directly affect us: the radon and the smoking. • Stanley: Or just air quality in general. It is more difficult for us to analyze it. • Trine: Or just do air quality things and that is why we are doing this? • Walters: I think that would be good. I think there needs to be some reasoning as to why _ we are presenting this to them. • Trine: I could say "The AQAB is concerned because..." • Walters: Absolutely, that would be great. Something to that effect. Air Quality Advisory Board 10/21/04 Page 13 of 14 • Stanley: It's been difficult for us to get information regarding health effects of air quality. The health impacts of these various air quality policies that we are asked to evaluate. I think there has been some discomfort at the staff level, that that is not their expertise. • Stanley: What is the cost of staff time for having a board? • Trine: City Council would have to ask to investigate that. But if they only met over certain issues... • Smith: Administrative costs are relatively low. They are the cost of meals and staff time. • York: There is preparation time too. • Smith: That would run into a problem. I think this board would be the experts and staff wouldn't be; they would provide staff input on whatever the issue was. Staff wouldn't be researching the health issues, the board would be. • Trine: Staff would more be bringing them the issue. My vision of this board would be it gets the information from the health department. Then the City has control of information and the decision making; we're not dependent on them to tell us what to. do. Somehow you have to get that information from the County., • Stanley: What this group could do is call in other experts and analyze the information. • Trine: And make recommendations, and it is still within the City's public process. • Smith: Could I make a suggestion? I wonder if it would be received better if you called it a health advisory board rather than board of health. • Walters: Or even Public Health Advisory Board. That makes it sound City oriented. • Trine: I'll do that. • Trine: I'm just going to add the sentence in the beginning that says something like, "Because the health impacts of air quality issues are complex, AQAB has found an absence of access to health experts in our community..." or something to that effect. The rest I will keep the same, but change the name. • Walters: I thought it sounded really good. • York: And some of the issues, to expand. • Trine: I'll put the issues in. • Stanley: You could put it from me as chair and I will put it on our letterhead. Ken Moore made the following motion: I move that we that we accept Cherie's proposal with the amendments discussed, and with the understanding that we will come to agreement on the exact language by email. The motion was unanimously approved. Updates • Stanley: Everett resigned, so we'll be down two members. Hopefully they will be filled soon. What do we do about quorum? • Smith: The manual says that the quorum size stays the same, so quorum will still take 5 members. • Smith: I forgot to mention that the meeting with the President of the Union of Concerned Scientists is tomorrow. Air Quality Advisory Board 10/21/04 Page 14 of 14 Agenda Planning • Stanley: Next time we need to make a recommendation on BOB. Smith: One other thing is your annual work plan. And then, any time the board wants and update on the Sustainability Action Plan. That has been through ELT and is ready to go out to the boards. Stanley: I'm going to bring an absenteeism memo for Council. If they would consider a change in policy regarding excused/unexcused absences. Research Articles York (Re: Study: Traffic boosts heart -attack risks): The thing that is interesting is that they never mention the particulate size. That would be nice to know. Meeting adjourned 8:09 PM Submitted by Liz Skelton Administrative Secretary I