HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning And Zoning Board - Minutes - 03/18/2004Council Liaison: Karen Weitkunat
Chairperson: Mikal Torgerson
Vice Chair: Judy Meyer
Cameron Gloss
Phone: (W) 416-7435
Phone: (W) 490-2172
Chairperson Torgerson called the meeting to order at 6:05 p.m
Roll Call: Craig, Schmidt, Gavaldon, Lingle, Carpenter and Torgerson. Vice -
Chairperson Meyer was absent.
Staff Present: Gloss, Eckman, Shepard, Olt, Barkeen, Wamhoff, K. Moore,
McWilliams, Gonzales, Bob Smith, Jim Hibbard, Williams.
Director of Current Planning Cameron Gloss reviewed the Consent and Discussion
Agendas:
Consent Agenda:
1. Minutes of the March 21, May 2, May 16, and June 20, 2002, and
February 19, 2004 (CONTINUED) Planning and Zoning Board
Hearings.
2. Resolution PZ04-07, Easement Vacation.
3. #24-03 Diane Louise Johnson Cultural Center. (PULLED TO DISCUSSION —
SCHMIDT)
4. #43-94K Horsetooth East Business Park, Dale's Carpet One, Project
Development Plan.
Recommendation Item: The Planning and Zoning Board provides a
recommendation to City Council on the following item:
5. #2-04 Prospect East Fourth, Annexation and Zoning.
Discussion Agenda:
6. #43-02 Trailhead Annexation and Zoning. (CONTINUED PER APPLICANT)
7. #7-04 Atrium Suites, 502 W. Laurel Street, Modification of Standard.
(CONTINUED PER APPLICANT)
Recommendation Items: The Planning and Zoning Board provides a
recommendation to City Council on the following items:
8. Proposed 2003 Stormwater Master Plan.
9. Land Use Code Amendment, Carriage House Design Standards.
Member Schmidt pulled Item #3, Diane Louise Johnson Cultural Center, for
discussion.
Planning and Zoning Board Minutes
March 18, 2004
Page 2
Member Gavaldon moved for approval of Consent Items 1 (less the February 19,
2004 minutes), 2, 4, and 5. Member Schmidt seconded the motion. The motion
was approved 6-0.
Project: Diane Louise Johnson Cultural Center, #24-03
Project Description: Request to convert a 1,939 square foot dwelling unit
into a cultural center to be used for small gatherings.
The property is 12,180 square feet in size and is
located at 1024 West Mulberry Street. It is zoned
NCL, Neighborhood Conservation Low Density.
Staff Recommendation: Approval
Hearina Testimony, Written Comments and Other Evidence:
Member Schmidt stated that she would like to have the neighbors' concern addressed
with respect to parking and "filtering" of groups that would be using the facility.
City Planner Steve Olt gave the staff presentation, recommending approval. He stated
that the parking concern was received from John Nikol who was concerned about
limited parking. Planner Olt stated that the Webbers do live on the property and that
they have worked out an agreement with a State Farm Insurance Agent who has a
property down the block, to use that site for parking for their facility. The site will easily
park 10-12 cars. Additionally, there are two parking spaces on the site as well as public
street parking.
Planner Olt deferred to the applicant for the issue about what types of groups would be
using the facility. He added that it would be appropriate to put a limit on the number of
persons who could use the facility at one time on the recorded site plan.
Margaret Webber, applicant, 1024 West Mulberry Street, stated that they had received
inquiries from many groups, including symphony groups, bible groups, a 4-H club, and
others, including family dinners. She stated that the Webbers plan to screen everyone
who requests to use the facility.
Member Craig asked if the site plan stated a maximum of 12 people could use the
facility at any one time.
Mrs. Webber replied that the new revisions have stated a 12-person maximum and
people will be asked to park at the State Farm or carpool.
Planning and Zoning Board Minutes
March 18, 2004
Page 3
Member Craig asked if this information would be included on the site plan to be
recorded.
Planner Olt replied that it would be.
Member Craig asked if this use would be maintained after the property is sold.
Planner Olt replied that it would be and that the next owner would also be subject to the
same restrictions in terms of numbers of people and parking.
Member Gavaldon asked if there had been an inventory of similar sites in the City.
Planner Olt replied that he did not do an inventory and was not aware of anything like
this in a residential home in the City.
Member Gavaldon replied that inventories had been done for other types of facilities
and wanted to know if we would be granting this use without enough information for
what could happen in the future.
Planner Olt replied that there are no guarantees but places of assembly are allowed in
this zoning district and each subsequent one will need to be evaluated on a case -by -
case basis.
Deputy City Attorney Paul Eckman stated that the criteria used to evaluate this project
are the same as a church, it is a place of assembly.
Member Lingle stated that this is a site -specific development proposal that deals with
this particular property; no new use or definition is being created.
Public Input
Charles Thomas, 1020 West Mulberry, gave his testimony to the Board. He stated his
support for the proposed project and added that the City should stripe the 4 or 5 blocks
of Mulberry on which parking is allowed on the north side.
Al Kruchten, 1305 Green Street, gave his testimony to the Board. He urged the Board to
look favorably upon the application and stated that this would be a good use of the
home. He stated that he would serve on the Board of Directors if the project were to be
approved.
Planning and Zoning Board Minutes
March 18, 2004
Page 4
Eva Sue Littleton, 900 Arbor Avenue, gave her testimony to the Board. She stated that
this project would provide a great meeting place for the Fort Collins Symphony Guild
and other small groups. She stated that this is a tremendous asset to the community.
Mark Olsen, 515 Wayne, gave his testimony to the Board. He stated that the Webbers
have done a great job with organizing the project and have been very considerate of
their neighbors. He stated that he trusts the Webbers with their decisions about what
types of groups are appropriate.
Arlene Albrandt, 2912 Shore Road, gave her testimony to the Board. She stated her
support for the project and added that it should be approved as the home is a perfect
small meeting place.
Tara Zeleny, 920 East Lake Street, stated her appreciation for the City staff throughout
the process. She thanked the Webbers for their generosity and concern for the
community.
Public Input Closed
Chairperson Torgerson asked about the street striping issue on Mulberry and asked
Director Gloss to follow up with the citizen who brought it up.
Planner Olt replied that he was unsure if parking was actually allowed on Mulberry
Street and added that it would not be necessary for this project but assured the Board
that the citizens' concerns would be addressed.
Member Gavaldon moved for approval of the Diane Louise Johnson Cultural
Center, File #24-03, citing the findings of fact and conclusions in the staff report.
Member Schmidt seconded the motion.
Member Gavaldon stated that it is a great project and that he wanted to make sure that
a good framework was in place for future similar projects. He asked staff to look into the
on -street parking issue.
The motion was approved 6-0.
Planning and Zoning Board Minutes
March 18, 2004
Page 5
Project: Proposed 2003 Stormwater Master Plan
Project Description: Request for the Planning and Zoning Board to either
make a formal recommendation and/or provide
comments to City Council in regard to the Stormwater
Master Plan.
Staff Recommendation: Approval
Hearing Testimony, Written Comments and Other Evidence:
Bob Smith, Fort Collins Utilities, gave the staff presentation. He stated that the Board
had discussed this item several times at worksessions and had provided comments. He
stated that staff is asking the Board to forward a formal recommendation on to City
Council for their April 6th meeting. Mr. Smith stated that other Boards have provided
formal recommendations with comments.
Mr. Smith stated that the Master Plan contains a number of items that are important to
convey runoff through that basin. It provides projects to address flooding problems on
existing properties and provides guidelines for new development. It also addresses
stormwater quality.
The study showed that there are 2,600 structures in the floodplain. If we had a 100-year
storm, we would expect $142 million worth of damages which would be dramatically
increased without improvements. With respect to improvement funding, totaling $164
million, about $132 million is in the City, $32 million is in the County and on CSU
property. The funding is achievable under the current financing plan that was adopted
by Council after the flood. About $42 million of improvements are associated with new
development. After the improvements, only 400 structures would be left in the
floodplain. Water quality and wetlands enhancement, stream stability, and other
improvements would be part of the project.
Mr. Smith stated that the public outreach was tremendous for this project, including
open houses, presentations to community groups, presentations to Boards and
Commissions, and community mailings. There is City-wide funding for this project,
which City Council decided upon after the 1997 flood.
Once adopted by City Council, prioritization of projects in the Master Plan will be
completed, the budget will then be adopted by City Council, and the project will then
begin.
Planning and Zoning Board Minutes
March 18, 2004
Page 6
Public Input
There was no public input.
Public Input Closed
Member Craig commended the Master Plan book and asked about the work that will
need to be done around the airport and its funding.
Mr. Smith replied that the airport will pay their share through their basin or impact fees
which are collected at the time of building permit. The basin fees are calculated based
on the amount of runoff the property is generating.
Member Craig asked if the figures are gross figures as to what the projects would cost
without taking out some of the development impact fees. Is there a possibility that figure
could be lower?
Mr. Smith replied that the totals in the Master Plan are the total costs of the projects.
The funding depends on how quickly they are built, the revenue from the rates, etc.
Some of that cost will be picked up by the development even if that does not show on
these totals. The priority is to solve existing problems which is why we use the
prioritization system looking at how many structures will benefit, the benefit/cost ratio,
and the number of road crossings. There are projects that may come to the top of the
list due to an opportunity, such as if a street is being reconstructed, or a new
development is coming through. These opportunities will reduce the cost of the projects
further from what is shown in the Master Plan figures, which are "stand-alone" projects.
Member Gavaldon asked what portion of the costs Larimer County, CSU, and Poudre
School District will pick up.
Mr. Smith replied that any project on another entity's property will be involved in cost -
sharing between that entity and the City. CSU is doing improvements on the main
campus on their own. The City is doing improvements for the City urbanized properties.
Member Gavaldon asked about the Poudre School District and County assets and
whether or not these other entities were paying their fair share.
Mr. Smith replied that they were all paying fees for their schools and their administration
buildings and those kinds of things.
Member Gavaldon asked if the other entities would be expected to pay their fair share if
a Special Improvement District were created.
Planning and Zoning Board Minutes
March 18, 2004
Page 7
Mr. Smith replied that they would be a partner in any kind of Special District and they
will all pay their fair share.
Chairperson Torgerson asked if the County has any funding mechanism for this.
Mr. Smith replied that they have one on West Vine but that is the only place.
Chairperson Torgerson asked if they would perhaps consider doing that if the property
is within the UGA and the City is considering annexing it. That may change their
motivation for investing millions in projects that will eventually be annexed into the City.
Mr. Smith stated that they do not have an identified or dedicated funding source for
drainage improvements. They have to get grants or create user fees. Annexation may
or may not be part of their motivation.
Member Schmidt asked about the Mulberry area, presuming that those businesses are
not paying any kind of stormwater fee.
Mr. Smith replied that was correct. The fees exist only in the City, except for West Vine
As soon as they are annexed into the City, they will start paying utility fees. Developed
properties would start paying the fees right away based on their runoff contribution.
Undeveloped properties would not pay any fees until they develop, at which time they
would pay a basin fee or impact fee and then start paying their utility fees, based on
their runoff contribution. The basin fees are one-time fees that are collected at the time
of building permit. Once they get their CO, they start paying the monthly utility fees like
everyone else.
Member Gavaldon moved that the Planning and Zoning Board recommend
approval to City Council of the 2003 Stormwater Master Plan as presented by
staff.
Member Lingle seconded the motion.
Member Craig commended staff for the Master Plan report. She stated that there are a
lot of existing deficiencies and stated that she would like City Council to approve this
plan but also not put it on a shelf; they should continue to look at different ways to fund
this. We need to be a bit more creative than going at the projects piecemeal the way we
are right now. She stated that she would like to see the buffers left and have "mother
nature" work with flooding as much as possible. Member Craig also wanted to forward
to Council the comment that once we've made the buffer, she would like us, to the
extent feasible, not to modify those buffers and keep development out of the areas it
should not be.
Planning and Zoning Board Minutes
March 18, 2004
Page 8
Member Gavaldon stated that the report is well -written and well -analyzed with good
detail. He stated that he appreciated the funding part but wanted to echo the comment
that we need to ensure our partners in government, CSU, Federal Government, State
and County, and the School District, pay their fair shares as well. He stated that the rate
payer cannot afford to pay for all the past oversights and should not have to pay for
them because they did not cause them. The rate payers should not be burdened with
fixing the old problems and new, creative funding should be explored. All other entities
should be paying their fair share.
Chairperson Torgerson stated that the substance of the report is excellent. He stated
that he has similar concerns about funding. It seems fundamentally unfair to have the
entire City as a whole share the cost of past deficiencies. By paying for projects that
take properties out of the flood plain, there is a direct financial gain for those properties
in that they do not have to pay flood insurance. This is a direct financial gain for those
properties that is at the expense of the other rate payers. The riparian habitat and water
quality aspect of the report is interesting and important. Whenever that can be done at
no additional cost, it should be encouraged. However, there are other departments in
the City that take care of those sorts of things and it would be more honest if the funding
for those kinds of things were funded through natural resources or the department in
charge, as opposed to funding it through Stormwater so the citizens have a clear idea of
where their tax dollars are going.
The motion was approved 6-0.
Member Torgerson noted that he had a conflict of interest on the next item, the Carriage
House Design Standards, and would be passing the gavel on to the former Vice -
Chairperson, Jerry Gavaldon, after the break.
Project: Land Use Code Amendment, Carriage House Design
Standards
Project Description: Request for a recommendation to City Council
regarding amendments to the Land Use Code related
to the design of dwelling units and accessory
buildings located along alleys within the Eastside and
Westside Neighborhoods. The Land Use Code
changes are a response to issues raised in a
moratorium approved by City Council in January
2004.
Planning and Zoning Board Minutes
March 18, 2004
Page 9
Staff Recommendation: Approval
Hearing Testimony, Written Comments and Other Evidence:
Chairperson Torgerson declared a conflict of interest on this item.
Planning Director Cameron Gloss gave the staff presentation, recommending that the
Planning and Zoning Board forward a recommendation of approval of the new design
standards on to City Council.
Director Gloss showed slides illustrating various examples of current carriage houses
throughout the City. He illustrated both positive and negative aspects of different
designs and sizes of the dwellings. He discussed the history of the process, which
began with a City Council moratorium on alley house construction in January 2004. A
very successful design charette was held over several days involving members of the
public, architects, developers, and other interested parties.
Director Gloss stated that, so far, the duplex, triplex, and fourplex units on the alleys
have not contributed much in a positive way. Staffs perspective, and that of many
involved in the public process, is that those should be prohibited. That is reflected in the
draft standards.
Other changes include eliminating the loophole with respect to square footage below
grade, adding an open space requirement that every alley house lot needs to have 120
square feet of open space with no single dimension being less than 10 feet. That 10 foot
dimension is enough to build a small patio or yard area. Poudre Fire Authority has
requested that we require fire sprinkler systems to be installed. Ron Gonzales, from
PFA, is here to answer any questions and to make a presentation.
Director Gloss stated that the new requirements for accessory buildings are also
included. Accessory buildings will have some restrictions with respect to human
occupancy so 4-car garages and the like cannot be built in the backyard. Along those
lines, another perceived loophole is that some people could put water/sewer service to
their garage and not meet the standards. The review process has that trigger built in so
these structures would have to be reviewed for compliance. It gives people some level
of control from a neighborhood side, but it also gives people on the private side the
ability to build that "away" space for their teenager, or an art studio for example.
Director Gloss stated that the new proposed review process would include the ability for
the Landmark Preservation Commission to be involved in situations where there may be
an individual landmark property that is eligible for historic designation. The LPC would
have the ability to provide comment at the start of the review process.
Planning and Zoning Board Minutes
March 18, 2004
Page 10
Director Gloss concluded his presentation by stating that there is an existing City policy
and the proposed changes to the Ordinance are not tremendous. There are some
instances where allowed square footage is larger but some of the loopholes are being
eliminated. Some of the big impacts, such as multiple units, will not be allowed. The
public is also being allowed to get more involved in a meaningful way.
Member Lingle asked whether or not there needs to be some kind of limitation placed
on how many accessory buildings and/or alley houses can be put on a lot. There could
be a potential for a smaller house and two or three accessory buildings at the 600 and
1,000 square foot maximums.
Director Gloss replied that staff tried to address that with a floor area ratio requirement.
There is a floor area ratio in the NCL district, for example, that says you cannot have
more than 25% building floor area on that lot. If the subdivision of lots does go forward,
as recommended in the staff report, the minimum lot size would be 6,000 square feet. If
you have a 12,000 square foot lot in the NCL, split it in half for 6,000 square foot lots,
the floor area ratio would be 25% of that area, or 1,500 square feet. That would be the
maximum floor area for all structures. The standards to not limit the number of
accessory structures, but this floor area ratio should help limit the number. If we decided
not to subdivide, there would be an imaginary subdivision line based on the minimum lot
size in the zone district. For example, even if the lot was 13,000 square feet, the
minimum lot size in the district would still be used for the 25% calculation, so it would
still be 25% of 6,000 square feet in the NCL zone. In the NCM and NCB zones, because
the minimum lot size is smaller, the floor area ratio is 33%. Director Gloss stated that
this certainly may not be the correct approach and other ideas would gladly be
entertained.
Member Lingle pointed out that in the 1,500 square foot example, there would still be
enough room for two of these to be on the rear portion of the lot. He asked if staff was
comfortable that this would not be detrimental to the neighborhood character.
Director Gloss replied that one would have to be more of a principal building and one
would have to be more of an accessory building so they would be smaller. There could
be some situations where two buildings would be possible.
Ron Gonzales with Poudre Fire Authority gave a presentation regarding PFAs thoughts
on the topic. Mr. Gonzales showed the Board several photos of alleys throughout the
City and illustrated various problems with obstructions and getting equipment through
when other vehicles are using the alleys, and when power lines, trees, and other
obstructions exist. He stated that driving down the alley is not the issue, but rather the
need for workspace that causes problems. The well -established alleys, like most
Planning and Zoning Board Minutes
March 18, 2004
Page 11
downtown, have utility poles, large trees, fences, outbuildings, and other obstructions.
The tight space can cause decreased room for hoses which then crimp and this results
in decreased water flow. The width of a truck, from outrigger to outrigger, is 20 feet, the
entire width of the alley. This makes it impossible for other equipment to get through the
alleys if needed. Mr. Gonzales stated that the two issues most difficult for PFA to deal
with are access and water supply. It is very difficult to get adequate room to work in the
alleys as well. He added that there are other facilities that would make it into this
concept, not just alley houses.
Director Gloss clarified that the other uses to which Mr. Gonzales was referring, such as
places of worship, would be allowed uses only for the front of the lot.
Mr. Gonzales stated that PFA does support the infill concept and has worked with
Director Gloss to get the addressing of the structures squared away as well as other
issues.
Member Lingle asked if Mr. Gonzales' illustrations were essentially in support of the
argument that the alley houses be sprinklered.
Mr. Gonzales replied that even if the structures are sprinklered, trucks still have to get
there despite the obstructions to the access and water supply. Sprinklers are not the
100% answer to the problem. Many of PFA's calls are medical, not fire, so these issues
are still a problem.
Member Lingle asked what Mr. Gonzales was asking the Board to do, or did he just
want the Board to be aware of the issues.
Mr. Gonzales replied that his recommendation would be for further study to see if some
of these issues can be overcome. He stated that he did not want to squelch the alley
house concept but there are some safety issues to consider. He stated that he would
like to have the opportunity for continued study in order to determine how to get over
these obstacles.
Member Carpenter asked if PFA does not think they can provide the safety they need if
the alley houses go in.
Mr. Gonzales replied that the alleys are ineffective for the delivery of their services. The
alleys were never intended for emergency -access purposes.
Member Carpenter asked about the other communities with alley houses and how they
have dealt with this issue.
Planning and Zoning Board Minutes
March 18, 2004
Page 12
Mr. Gonzales replied that he had tried to research how other communities handled the
problem but he had difficulty finding documents from a fire and emergency access
perspective rather than from a planning or engineering perspective.
Director Gloss stated that he had looked at Land Use Codes throughout the west and
found that one community in California actually requires carriage houses to be on the
backs of lots. There was not enough information or detail to determine how this issue
was dealt with in other communities.
Member Schmidt stated that most of the difficulties seem to be caused by existing
things that are there, the garages, power poles, etc. She stated that other communities
have gone to smaller -sized fire engines to deal with different street widths. She asked if
that would be a possibility in Fort Collins or if some alleys could possibly be
redeveloped to be a bit wider.
Mr. Gonzales replied that this downtown concept is a problem because of the
established alleys. It can work in new developments where the access can be planned.
Trying to fit this in to well -established communities is difficult.
Member Schmidt asked what the size of an ambulance is in relation to a fire truck.
Mr. Gonzales replied that it is about as wide but not as long
Member Craig asked if this issue came up in Boulder at all.
Director Gloss replied that access and obstructions seemed to be about the same in
Boulder and that this issue did not really come up. The units there are required to be fire
sprinklered though, as a matter of course.
Member Craig stated that her impression is that sprinklering is not enough; they only
protect the structure until an engine can get there. There are also still ambulances and
other access issues so sprinklers may not be enough. Member Craig noted that Boulder
no longer allows alley houses except on corner lots and asked if possibly the safety
access was one of the concerns.
Director Gloss replied that the change had a lot more to do with noise impacts, rental
housing impacts, and the scale of units. There were also some units being built in
historic districts where it was felt that the units were not compatible with the strict
standards of those districts.
Member Schmidt asked if there were any regulations now for people who have
flammable materials as part of an alley structure.
Planning and Zoning Board Minutes
March 18, 2004
Page 13
Mr. Gonzales replied that those issues are considered with the home occupation
requirements that are part of the Building Code. There are fire code requirements for
dealing with the hazard, not necessarily the location of that hazard.
Member Gavaldon asked about fire access issues which he dealt with in 1983-1986. He
stated that he brought up some fire access concerns with then PFA employee Mark
Pretz (?). Member Gavaldon stated that he was told that it was not a concern for PFA at
the time because they do not fight from the alley, they fight from the street where the
hydrant is. Member Gavaldon asked why the change in PFA policy had occurred.
Mr. Gonzales replied that he could not answer that question
Member Gavaldon stated that he was not inclined to support the sprinkler systems
because it seems to only be part of the solution. He suggested exploring the idea of
smaller trucks.
Mr. Gonzales stated that the life of a fire engine is 20-30 years and that PFA has
considered trucks that have four-wheel steering to lessen the turning radius. However,
they do not have any trucks that articulate at this time. The problem with the smaller
trucks is that there is not always enough room for people and equipment. That
sometimes means more pieces of equipment have to show up to bring the same
amount of equipment and personnel.
Member Gavaldon suggested adding fire hydrants in the alleys.
Mr. Gonzales replied that the water supply in the neighborhoods to which this project
refers, is already low because of the smaller pipes.
Public Input
Barbara Balzer, 5200 Abbey Road, gave her testimony to the Board. She stated that
she owns many properties in the Fort Collins area. She stated that she and her husband
started a duplex alley project over two years ago, at 624 Loomis, which they bought
specifically because a duplex was allowed under the rules in effect at the time. She
stated that she followed the guidelines and codes exactly at the time. She stated that
her architect, Mikal Torgerson, assured her that she would hopefully meet all the
requirements in time to get the project submitted prior to the moratorium taking effect.
She stated that her concerns lie with the fact that her project followed all the rules in
effect at the time. Mrs. Balzer read a letter that was written by her architect, Mikal
Torgerson, to Cameron Gloss with respect to her project submittal being turned away.
According to Mrs. Balzer, the letter read "I am writing to express my disagreement with
Mr. Olt's decision to return my accepted project development plan application for the
Planning and Zoning Board Minutes
March 18, 2004
Page 14
Balzer Duplex. Your Planning Technician, Ginger Dodge, reviewed and accepted the
PDP application at 2:30 on Thursday... Roughly at a half-hour following the acceptance
of the Balzer PDP application, Mr. Olt informed me that he wished to return the Balzer
PDP application because he had discovered a week or two ago that the Fort Collins
Land Use Code would required a neighborhood meeting to be held prior to the
acceptance of the PDP application that would be submitted to the P8Z review ... At no
time during the multiple meetings conducted with Mr. Olt regarding the pending Balzer
PDP application, did Mr. Olt ever inform my client or I that a neighborhood meeting
would be required prior to the acceptance of the development application. Given the fact
that this process occurred over the course of the last few months, there would have
been ample time to schedule, provide the Code -required notice, conduct such meetings
to our developing PDP application, and submit before the January 30th moratorium, had
we been informed of this process in a timely fashion. The Balzer PDP represents
significantly less than a one percent change in the overall project density; therefore, it is
reasonable to assume that it does not constitute a major impact on its surroundings...I
am particularly bothered by the fact that the application was accepted by the staff only
to be returned an hour prior to the moratorium taking effect. The most charitable
interpretation that I can offer or the series of events is that Mr. Olt exhibited extreme
incompetence in his duties which could result in costing my client multiple thousands of
dollars as a result of his ultimate job performance."
Mrs. Balzer stated that this has cost her a great deal of money. She continued on
reading the letter, " I am however haunted by the thought that this application, and
others like it have been the subject of some bias by both staff and the City Council. It is
no secret that the moratorium was enacted to further regulate and restrict exactly this
sort of development in Old Town. I do not believe that it is appropriate to withhold
information which could have been dealt with if appropriate notice had been given. I
have never been asked to conduct a neighborhood meeting prior to the submission of a
PDP application in seven years I have practiced in Fort Collins."
Mrs. Balzer asked that her issue be addressed, perhaps at a further date
Member Gavaldon assured Mrs. Balzer that her concerns would be addressed by
appropriate staff members, including Director Gloss.
Ian Scheff, 909 West Oak Street and member of the Landmark Preservation Board,
gave his testimony to the Board. He stated that, overall, the LPC is supportive of the
proposed alley house standards. The LPC's greatest concerns are related to the
subdivision of lots. By subdividing the lot, there will inherently be two different owners
with which will come two different landscaping designs, fences, and other attributes that
will change the lot and disrupt the historic character of the lot. Also with two owners,
when new neighborhoods could be eligible for historic districts, the new alley houses
Planning and Zoning Board Minutes
March 18, 2004
Page 15
would be considered separate which would increase the number of new homes in the
historic district which could detriment its likelihood of becoming a district. Mr. Scheff
stated that the LPC would like to be a part of the review process, mostly on an
architectural or compatibility level.
Meegan Flennigan (sp?), 617 West Myrtle Street, gave her testimony to the Board. She
strongly urged the Board to recommend that City Council adopt the carriage house
standards as proposed. She stated that she was part of the extensive public process
and felt that the proposed standards reflect a responsible, creative, and critical means
for protecting historic Old Town character and our Old Town neighborhoods. Ms.
Flennigan stated that as a proponent of infill and an Old Town resident, she feels that
requiring standards for congruent structures, that infill will compliment existing
neighborhoods and we will be able to provide a greater community benefit. She stated
that she did not believe that duplex and multi-plex units are not appropriate in the alleys
or in many parts of Old Town. Ms. Flennigan recognized Director Gloss and City staff
for what was a very effective, well -planned, open, and well -advertised public
involvement process.
Sarah Dentoni, 20 Circle Drive, gave her testimony to the Board. She stated support for
the carriage house proposal but discouraged the possibility of multi -family development
and subdivisions. She also commented that there is probably a large existing problem
with respect to the PFA concerns. She suggested that perhaps this is a general problem
which should be addressed rather than relating it solely to carriage houses.
Public Input Closed
Member Gavaldon asked Director Gloss to address Mrs. Balzer's concerns as the
issues seemed to be outside the Board privy.
Member Lingle asked if Mrs. Balzer's problem was the process and where she got
caught in the moratorium or if it was that she won't now be able to do what the PDP
submittal would have allowed her to do.
Director Gloss replied (as Mrs. Balzer had already left the meeting) that he suspected it
was more the latter. They seemed to be more interested in constructing a duplex which,
as we have said, would be a prohibited type of dwelling under this proposal.
Member Lingle asked if there were other projects in the same situation just before the
moratorium went into effect.
Director Gloss replied that one single-family alley house did get in the day prior to the
moratorium.
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March 18, 2004
Page 16
Member Craig asked what the history of PFA's approach to alley houses has been — did
they fight fires from the street? If so, why can that not be done today.
Mr. Gonzales replied that he was unsure of the history of which Member Gavaldon
spoke earlier but stated that today, the PFA position is that fire protection and medical
services are to be provided when a customer calls. If there is a fence in the way, PFA
will do the best to get around it. The upper level of the carriage houses compounds the
problem. Even if non-combustible buildings were required, the furniture and people
inside create the fire conditions. Time is always of the essence.
Member Lingle asked if PFA could require sprinkler systems in alley house units
regardless of whether or not the City Council would adopt that as a requirement.
Mr. Gonzales replied that the PFA uses that option as a recommendation for the
customer to get past the obstacle. Typically, the Code response to no access or no
water supply is "thou shall not proceed." As an alternative to that hindrance, PFA
recommends that if the facility is sprinklered, that Code deficiency can be offset.
Member Lingle asked if that was something that PFA would invoke regardless of what
action the City would take, as the two organizations are autonomous.
Mr. Gonzales replied that there are triggers for any facility that is beyond the
measurable distance from the street.
Member Schmidt asked if PFA knows when it is going to a property if it is a stand-alone
structure, or a front house connected to a back house. If the lots are subdivided, could
PFA access the rear lot through the front?
Mr. Gonzales replied that they will use whatever means necessary but there are
property lines that may need to be respected if the particular lot is subdivided. Right
now, there is not a way to identify the front lot from the back. The City lacks in that we
do not have a formal addressing policy.
Member Schmidt asked how current subdivided lots are identified.
Director Gloss clarified that the City of Fort Collins is authorized to assign addresses;
this is done through explicit rules of the Larimer County Urban Area Street Standards.
With respect to the front and rear unit, the City does assign addressing at the time of
building permit. The protocol currently is that if it is a detached single-family house, the
front unit is A and the rear unit is B. There have been some instances where a numeric
was assigned rather than a letter, but overall that is the policy. A difficulty comes up
when there are multiple units in the front and a single-family unit in the rear. If
Planning and Zoning Board Minutes
March 18, 2004
Page 17
subdivisions are allowed and you create a second lot, you have to assign an address to
the lot. This is done when a subdivision plat is recorded with the County. If the
subdivision does not happen, we would still assign an address at the time of building
permit. The alleys do not have names, and that is not supported by PFA of the police,
other than a few in Old Town.
Member Gavaldon suggested that the PFA issues could possibly be discussed in a
worksession.
Director Gloss stated that the goal of this project was to address all the impacts of these
structures. Some of those translate into specific Land Use Code language changes and
others are specific to administrative policies. It may be that we cannot overcome some
of the obstacles we have and City Council may have to make some of those decisions.
Member Schmidt stated that the reality is that if PFA cannot get to a fire from the alley,
they will have to fight it from wherever they can.
Member Carpenter stated that she greatly appreciated the work staff has done on this
topic. She stated that the majority of the project is great but she is confused about the
subdivision piece and did not understand why it is there. She asked if there were other
cities that allow subdivision of lots like this.
Director Gloss replied that he did not find any other communities that allow subdivision.
Member Carpenter stated that in the staff report, it basically states that the sentiment of
most members of the public in the process to date is that the ordinance should prohibit
the creation of lots fronting on alleys. The police department and fire department agree
and the LPC is concerned about the historic districts. Member Carpenter asked why
staff was even suggesting that subdivisions be allowed. She stated she could not
support it at all.
Director Gloss replied that one of the main considerations is the provision of affordable
housing. It would give the opportunity for home ownership in Old Town to more
individuals. There were also some individuals from the real estate industry who made
the case that if the lots are subdivided, there is an equal or better chance that there will
be owner -occupancy on the lot. If it is one lot, there will likely be a renter in the rear unit.
Member Carpenter stated that there is something to be said for affordable housing but
there are too many groups against it. She stated specific concern for the historic
districts noting that you change the entire historic pattern when subdivisions are
allowed. She stated that she could not support the subdivision idea as the negatives far
outweigh the positives.
Planning and Zoning Board Minutes
March 18, 2004
Page 18
Member Carpenter stated that we are now up to 660 lots on which the carriage houses
could be built, in the Old Town area. She asked if there were any blocks on which 5 or 6
units could be allowed, creating an entire street of alley houses.
Director Gloss replied that generally, that is not the case. There are some areas where
eligible lots are concentrated, but that is generally not the case. Many of the blocks
probably have 1/3 of the lots eligible but it is really on a block by block basis. There is
no maximum number on any particular block due to fairness.
Member Schmidt asked if a single -story carriage house unit could have a basement for
more storage.
Director Gloss replied that it would be very small due to the maximum square footage of
the units, but it would be possible. One of the goals was to show that there are many
types of designs available, depending on the type of use. It would not be possible to put
in an unfinished basement to be finished later.
Member Schmidt asked if there was any consideration given to allowing a multi -family
alley unit on corner lots.
Director Gloss replied that that was not explored.
Member Lingle asked if there was any consideration given to allowing larger units on
some of the larger lots.
Director Gloss replied that they did look at that and determined that the best way to
handle it would be to have a modification procedure apply. Because some of the lots
are bigger and represent a unique circumstance, a modification could allow something
different. One of the issues that was continually brought up was the mass of the unit,
which is why the footprint has been decreased to 600 square feet in the proposed
standards.
Member Carpenter stated that she noticed that the only standards relate to mass and
size. She asked if there were any kind of architectural controls or guidelines.
Director Gloss replied that architectural guidelines were not included purposefully
because we did not want to get trapped into stylistic issues. Aside from a few individuals
that represented preservation concerns, there were few comments on architecture. The
main comments were related to the mass, bulk and scale of the structure and the
intensity of the use in terms of the number of people who live there. Director Gloss
noted a comment received from an Old Town resident who did not want to see diversity
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March 18, 2004
Page 19
squashed with this process. The point basically is that we wanted to protect the variety
and imperfection of Old Town
Member Craig asked if it seemed the current carriage houses are becoming "cookie -
cutter' and if that were one of the concerns which led to the moratorium.
Director Gloss replied that it would be difficult to stop people from repeating the same
floor plan or structure.
Member Craig noted that new subdivisions do not allow the same model to be built on
next door lots and asked if something like that could be a possibility with this.
Director Gloss replied that that was the reason for showing the different illustrative
examples to show residents that there are many ways to configure these spaces so
they don't have to be exactly the same. However, the final design will ultimately be up to
the property owner. It would be too difficult to regulate that.
Member Craig asked if it would be possible to put the LPC higher in the review process
and thereby have some input into allowing a series of "cookie -cutter" carriage houses.
Director Gloss replied that, in the cases where LPC would have comment, such as on
structures that are individual landmarks or those that are eligible or in close proximity to
a landmark, the LPC would have some influence on the decision. Quite a few of the lots
in Old Town would fall under the LPC review and they are shown as pretty high up in
the review process, at the first round when staff looks at the project. Director Gloss
added that the LPC does not really have a review process which goes from conceptual
drawings to design. A certain level of design has to be complete before you could go
talk to them.
Member Carpenter stated that in fact, one could request a conceptual review from an
architectural subcommittee of the LPC.
Mr. Gonzales clarified that Member Gavaldon had been correct regarding the 1980's
information he had discussed previously. He clarified that PFA's position is that they
would like to stay on the street but they feel they are being drawn into the alley with the
concept of alley houses because that customer fronts on the alley. PFA would be
particularly concerned about subdivisions because there would likely be fences and
other obstructions which would prevent an alley house fire from being fought from the
front.
Planning and Zoning Board Minutes
March 18, 2004
Page 20
Member Carpenter moved for the Planning and Zoning Board to recommend
approval to City Council of the Carriage House Design Standards and Land Use
Code Amendments with the exception of the subdivision clause.
Attorney Eckman stated that the subdivision language could be extracted and noted that
some minor, non -substantive grammatical changes would likely have to be made to the
language as the latest draft has not been proofread.
Member Schmidt seconded the motion.
Member Lingle asked if Member Carpenter would be willing to consider subdivision of
corner lots only where those could take street access.
Member Carpenter replied that she was not at all comfortable with subdivision and
would prefer to move forward without it.
Member Craig agreed with Member Carpenter stating that the subdivision is extremely
inappropriate, particularly with the knowledge that other communities do not do it.
Member Craig added that Mr. Gonzales made a very strong case and now that there
are as many as 660 eligible lots for alley houses, it is a particular concern. She stated
that she could not support going forward with alley houses at all, given the safety
concerns, but definitely could not support subdivisions.
Member Lingle echoed Member Carpenter's comments about the tremendous and
speedy staff effort. He also thanked the public and professionals for their input at the
charette. He added that he was supportive of most of the proposal and stated his
support for affordable housing outweighs his concerns about some of the access issue:
on the alleys. These issues can be dealt with as we move forward. Member Lingle
stated that he was in support of not allowing multiple units on the alleys and was also in
support of the modification process to possibly allow larger units on larger lots. He
added that he was going to take the stance of subdivided lots being acceptable on
corner lots but if that would negatively affect the historic district eligibility, he may not be
in support of it.
Member Carpenter stated that she was not exactly sure of how it would affect eligibility
but it could be calculated.
Member Lingle stated that he was concerned about requiring accessory buildings to go
through an entire PDP process. He stated that he could see the need for the full
process on something that is definitely going to be a dwelling unit, but for something like
a pottery studio, it seems to be a bit of an onerous requirement. He suggested perhaps
having a neighborhood meeting with a smaller notification radius and no other steps, or
Planning and Zoning Board Minutes
March 18, 2004
Page 21
something along those lines. He asked if changing this process could be considered as
a friendly amendment to the motion and also stated concern about having disincentives
built into this so we end up with a proliferation of pop -tops or additions or something that
would be in a reaction to the restrictions.
Member Gavaldon stated that he would like to see staff and perhaps City Council look
into that issue.
Member Schmidt agreed with Member Craig's comment about the safety issues but
stated that she saw those as currently existing. She would like Council to hear that if the
alley house concept continues, the whole alley/ safety issue needs to be looked at as ar
entirely separate issue — how are we going to look at the safety of all the residents in an
Old Town environment. She noted that undergrounding utilities was an example of a
start on that. Not going forward with this does not do anything to help solve the existing
problem. On the affordable housing issue, there is no guarantee that any of these
homes will be, or will remain, affordable. If a corner lot were to be subdivided and the
rear lot would then have street access, the whole rear yard/side yard issue becomes a
concern. That can create setback issues for that lot and adjoining lots. Member Schmidt
stated that her recommendation would be to not have subdivisions. The safety issues
are definitely a concern but, if we go ahead with this, they are issues that will need to be
dealt with on a much larger scale.
Member Craig asked if a friendly amendment could be added to the motion to consider
the safety of the alley. Along with the design standards, alley safety should also be
considered.
Members Carpenter and Schmidt agreed to accept the friendly amendment.
Attorney Eckman asked Member Craig to clarify the meaning of the amendment in
terms of tasks for staff.
Director Gloss noted the short time frame on this issue and asked the Board to provide
direction on the additional study.
Member Craig replied that she did not want to slow down the process but would like
Council to, as they look at the design standards, ask staff to do a study or sit down with
PFA and address some of their issues and bring that back to Council.
Member Schmidt stated that some work needs to be done on addressing the problems
that currently exist. She stated that this is another reason to not have subdivisions, to
avoid fences and property line obstructions.
Planning and Zoning Board Minutes
March 18, 2004
Page 22
Member Gavaldon stated that he would support the motion and agreed that he did not
want subdivisions and added that alley houses have been going on for years and that
the City needs to get everyone to work together, as Director Gloss has done with this
process, and be on the same page with the issues. He stated that PFA needs to be
flexible on their equipment choices when adapting to these kinds of chages.
Member Lingle asked if there was any support for his idea to remove the full PDP
requirement from accessory structures.
Member Schmidt stated that the concern is that there is no guarantee they will stay
accessory structures.
Director Gloss stated that neither of the existing processes, the PDP or the Basic
Development Review, seems to have an appropriate fit here, one is too much and one
is not enough. The Basic Development Review would not require the neighborhood
meeting, hearing, or any public process to come into play. The PDP (Type I Review)
may be a bit too much but, given the public involvement, the hope was to have a bit
more expedient PDP review. It did not seem appropriate to come up with a new type of
review for this.
Member Schmidt reiterated her concern that the units could turn into some kind of living
space.
Mr. Gonzales stated that some home occupations that have come up, involving
hazardous materials include glass blowing, spray painters, and jewelers. Those are
sometimes not seen from the street and the PDP process sometimes helps to catch
that. Typically, the home owner goes ahead with their business and PFA only finds out
about it when a neighbor calls in with a concern.
The motion was approved 5-0, with Chairperson Torgerson abstaining from the
vote due to a conflict.
There was no other business.
The meeting was adjourned at 9:24 p.m.
These minutes were approved at the 4/15/2004 Planning and Zoning Board Hearing.