HomeMy WebLinkAboutGolf Board - Minutes - 10/23/2002City of Fort Collins
Cultural, Library, and Recreational Services
Golf Board
Minutes: Regular Meeting of October 23, 2002
Council Liaison to the Board: Councilman Bill Bertschy
Staff Support to the Board: Jerry P. Brown, Manager of Golf at 221-6350, and Patty
Carroll, Administrative Aide at 416-2265
Call Meeting to Order: Vice Chairperson Dave Johnson called the meeting to order at
7:00 p.m.
Agenda Review: There were no changes to the printed agenda.
Items of Note:
• Chairperson Bill Rutledge called and will be unable to attend the meeting. Frank
Blanco called and will be late. (He arrived shortly thereafter.)
• The November meeting will include approval of the 2003 Work Plan.
• Jerry requested that the Board Members read the "Recent Court Decisions Regarding
Colorado Open Meetings Act" confidential memorandum from the Assistant City
Attorney, and to contact him if there are any questions.
• The Board's & Commission's Appreciation Event will be held at the Lincoln Center
on November 15. Frank Blanco is to be honored that night for his 8 1/2 years of
service on the Board.
Approval of Minutes: On a motion by Grant Sherwood, seconded by Claire Nelms, the
Board unanimously approved the Minutes of the September 18, 2002 Regular Meeting
(8:0).
Citizen Participation: There was no citizen participation at this time.
Presentation and Recommendation: Request to Modify the City Park Nine
Concession Agreement and to Change the Existing 3.2% Beer License to a Beer and
Wine License:
Mike Goff, Golf Professional/Concessionaire at City Park Nine, presented his proposal
for obtaining a Wine and Beer License and implementing a catering service. If he
receives the approvals, he will be able to cater special events from the City Park Nine
kitchen. The kitchen needs to be modified if the catering is approved. The hearing for
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October 23, 2002
Page 2
the liquor license is November 18. He asked for the Board's approval. Jerry explained
that SouthRidge has a Hotel/Restaurant License and Collindale currently has a 3.2 beer
license, but we are applying for a Hotel/Restaurant license when the new Clubhouse
opens. Lauren DeRosa wanted to know if food would be available all the time. Mike
said yes. Claire Nelms wanted to know if catering would be available for banquets,
tournaments, etc. Mike said yes. Jerry said we renovated the City Park Nine Clubhouse
in 1987 for this purpose. We've had several concessionaires over the years who were
unable to make a profit. We cannot financially support a full -service snack bar at City
Park Nine. Mike's current Agreement does authorize the catering service at his expense.
Larry Buckendorf wanted to confirm that Mike was going for a Beer and Wine License,
and also the Catering Service. The Beer and Wine is a change. Larry wanted to know
what Mike's investment would be. Mike said it's not a lot. Grant Sherwood wanted to
know if we need to watch being in competition with the private sector. Jerry said
basically yes, but Golf is our first priority, and our facilities can be rented out for special
events, but not on a regular basis. Mike Sanders wanted to know whether the kitchen
would be brought up to code, etc. Mike Goff said yes. Larry Buckendorf then made a
motion to change Mike Goff liquor license to Beer and Wine, and also to approve the
Catering Service pending a review of final costs. Manuel Jimenez seconded the motion.
Mike Sanders said we will have to be certain everything lines out. Everyone agreed.
Jerry thinks a Beer and Wine License is a good idea. The motion passed (8:0).
Update on Collindale Clubhouse Project and Other Golf Fund Capital Projects:
• The sidewalk extension at Collindale is under construction. Jim Greer, Golf
Professional at Collindale, says it should be finished next week. The parking lot is
his main concern. It could be finished Friday, but due to bad weather, Jim hopes it
will be completed no later than Monday. The exterior of building is virtually 100%
done, the siding is up, and the retaining wall is going slowly. As soon as that is done,
the concrete Cart Path can be laid. We should have electricity and heat next week.
Jim said the public has made many positive remarks. Several changes and upgrades
have been made. We're still on target on the construction budget, but maybe a little
late on time. The furniture was upgraded, and the low bid came in $30,000 higher
than budget. We went with quality furniture. We're still within the total budget.
However, if anything else comes up, we'll probably have to go into reserve funds.
Jerry thinks we're within 2 months of completion, and said we're hoping to have the
first Golf Board Meeting in the Clubhouse in January.
• Jerry said the SouthRidge Golf Cart Building is almost complete. The brick is similar
to what is on the Clubhouse and the roof is the same. It should be open in November.
• The City Park Nine Storm Drainage Project is about ready to start. Jerry said the
existing sod on the 61h green will be stripped and saved and the construction site will
be fenced off. None of the expenses are at our cost. The temporary 6th Green will be
cut next week and temporary tee boxes built on #7... We will be putting in another
tee box on the I" Fairway to help us mitigate errant balls from hitting cars in the
ballfield parking lot.
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October 23, 2002
Page 3
Presentation and Recommendation: Tournament Reservation Policy and Changes
to the Collindale Men's Golf Association Special Privileges:
Jerry said we talked at the last meeting about the reservation policies currently in place.
The Board asked us to come back with recommendations. Jerry said he and the Golf
Professionals met and came up with a proposal. Jerry wants a consistent policy for the
two 18-hole courses' tournaments. The tee time tournaments will be handled the same as
before. Jerry wanted to know if the Board agrees with the Staff proposal. The Board
unanimously concurred.
The Collindale Men's Golf Association (CMGA) Special Privileges Policy: Historically
we give the CMGA eight weekend dates for tournament play from May through Labor
Day and the CMGA Members are allowed to use their Annual Golf Passes, and Jerry
believes we need to revisit this practice. He doesn't think the CMGA should have both
price and availability privileges. Marty Heffernan, Cultural, Library, and Recreational
Services Director, told Jerry he thinks we should go to the full green fees for the CMGA.
Jerry suggested, as an alternative only, raising fees $4.00 per year for an additional five
years. Lauren DeRosa wanted to know if the Men's Association played as a reserved
group any time other than weekends. The answer is no. Frank Blanco asked if they got a
break on weekdays. Again the answer was no. Citizen John Jay Dempsey mentioned
that not all the members of the CMGA were pass holders. Jerry agreed. Mr. Dempsey
wanted to know if this issue had anything to do with revenue shortfalls. Jerry said no.
Lauren wanted to know if any other group had dual discounts. Jerry said no. Mike
Sanders asked if the events were one or two days. He was told that out of the eight days
reserved for the CMGA, there are two two-day tournaments. Claire Nelms wanted to
know if the CMGA played tournaments every week. CMGA President Charlie Ogren
said they held two tournaments a month.
Jerry thinks two discounts are too much. Lauren wants to know how the City justifies this
type of advantage. Jerry gave a brief history of this golf issue. Jerry said the CMGA
helped get Collindale started. There are groups at facilities throughout Parks and
Recreation who do something special at that facility and get benefits. The question is
whether two special privileges should be allowed. The special privileges were originally
agreed to in the 1970's and reapproved in 1997. Manny Jimenez said if other groups held
a tournament the fee would be $55.00. Mike said we offer Non -Prime Time discounts to
seniors and juniors. Jerry said we also have special fees for high school teams and CSU.
Citizen Gary Thiret is a pass holder and related his history with Collindale golf. He is an
advocate of using passes. He feels the CMGA gives many benefits to the public. He
claims it's a public group whom gets together to play golf. He thinks it's a penalty for
them to be denied the privileges. He said Association Members pay more for their
unrestricted passes, and thinks they should not have to pay extra for their tournaments.
Dave Johnson asked Gary how many people would not play golf if we institute higher
fees. Gary said maybe 10. He claims it's the game. Frank asked if Gary was suggesting
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October 23, 2002
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we shouldn't do anything. Frank said it's a privilege. Gary said again that the
Association has given tens of thousands of dollars over the years to Collindale Golf
Course. They make their donations as a group by vote. John Jay Dempsey said thank
you for the improvements and agreed with Gary's points. He feels the strength of the
organization is a big part of the organization and that support will dwindle with higher
fees.
Citizen Marsha Raymond said she plays a lot of golf at all three courses, and thinks the
CMGA is a great organization. She complimented the condition of the courses. She also
thinks the fees in Fort Collins are very reasonable, and increasing these CMGA fees is
appropriate. Someone then said some people couldn't afford to pay the extra $4.00 to
play golf.
Larry Buckendorf asked to terminate the public discussion. Frank said we could change
Jerry's proposal. Mike believes that the public's access to the course has more merit. He
mentioned his history on the Board and the fights to get things changed. Mike said at one
point that money up front was important. It is not now. He mentioned we are an
Enterprise Fund. We have to pay 100% of expenses. Mike thinks the CMGA should pay
full tournament fees and he is not in favor of annual passes. Mike made a suggestion that
the CMGA should move some of their tournament events to Saturday afternoon.
Larry said he believes the additional cost to the CMGA is not that much, and they would
not lose that many people. He is not in favor of annual passes. However, he is going to
vote against taking away the privileges. Dave asked Charlie again how much it costs for
Association Members to play. Charlie told how the money was spent from tournament
fees and dues. Dave feels some of the people will pay for other things, and $4.00 will not
keep then from playing. Dave feels other courses charge so much more, and the $4.00
won't make any difference. He is not a fan of passes. He thinks the Association should
pay the fee.
Acting Chairperson Dave Johnson then asked for a motion. Grant Sherwood made a
motion to adopt the policy as proposed by Jerry. Claire Nelms seconded the motion.
Frank wanted to know if we were already scheduling tournaments for 2003. Jerry said
the CMGA gets first priority on tournaments and nothing would be scheduled until
January 2003. Citizen Mike Enright wanted to know if punch cards could still be used
for CMGA events. Jerry said they could be used. Frank doesn't think the current policy
should continue. Dave thinks Jerry's proposal is the right way to go. Jerry said we have
changed many special privileges and may have to change more. We are going to look at
fees starting in January. Someone wanted to know if we'd be phasing out passes. Jerry
said it is possible. The motion failed on a 4:4 vote.
Mike Sanders then made a motion that annual passes will not be allowed for CMGA
tournaments/events on weekends in Prime Time from May to Labor Day and there would
be no phase -in, and that full green fees would be paid. Manny Jimenez seconded the
motion. The motion passed (5:3) with Frank Blanco, Manny Jimenez, Claire Nelms,
Mike Sanders, and Grant Sherwood voting for the motion, and Larry Buckendorf, Lauren
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October 23, 2002
Page 5
DeRosa and Dave Johnson voting against the motion. Lauren voted no because she
thinks the fee increases should be phased -in over a period of time. Dave agreed with
Lauren, and Larry said he is opposed to passes, but he thinks the revenue impact is not
significant, and thinks there is no justification for taking away the privilege.
Other Business:
• Claire Nelms wanted to know if the goose dogs ever came to Collindale. Jim Greer
said no because there are very few geese at this time, but we have the permit.
• Larry Buckendorf wanted to know how the Collindale Concessionaire RFP process is
going. Jerry said the RFP would be out shortly, probably in early November. Bids
would probably close after Thanksgiving. Interviews would hopefully be held by
mid -December. Jerry said the Committee, and the Board Members can read all of the
proposals, and Board Members can make recommendations to their Committee
Members, but only the Committee can vote. Jerry hopes the vendor will be picked by
the middle of December and be in place by January.
• Jerry asked if anyone had questions on the materials sent. No one had questions.
• Mike Sanders asked about Board applicants. Jerry said there are at least seven
applicants for the Golf Board.
Adjournment
Lauren DeRosa made a motion the meeting be adjourned, Mike Sanders seconded the
motion. The motion passed unanimously (8:0) at 8:58 p.m.
Meeting Attendance
Board Members Staff
Frank Blanco
Larry Buckendorf
Lauren DeRosa
Manny Jimenez
Dave Johnson
Claire Nelms
Mike Sanders
Grant Sherwood
Jerry P. Brown
Patty Carroll
Rob Dahl
Mike Goff
Jim Greer
Kevin Wilcox
Respectfully submitted,
farr
Paoll
ty
Administrative Aide
Guests
C. K. Bixler
Alex Chapman
John Jay Dempsey
Mike Enright
Pat Finnegan
Lennie Jordan
Charlotte Jorgenson
Charlie Ogren
Mike Perry
Marsha Raymond
John Schuh
Gary Thiret
Michael Thomas