HomeMy WebLinkAboutNatural Resources Advisory Board - Minutes - 07/19/2023Page 1
07/19/2023 – MINUTES
Natural Resources Advisory Board
REGULAR MEETING
Wednesday, July 19, 2023 – 6:00 PM
222 Laporte Avenue, Colorado River Room
1. CALL TO ORDER: 6:18 PM
2. ROLL CALL
a. Board Members Present –
• Danielle Buttke
• Dawson Metcalf (Chair)
• Drew Derderian
• Kelly Stewart (Vice Chair)
• Kevin Krause
• Lisa Andrews
• Matt Zoccali
b. Board Members Absent –
• Barry Noon
• Bryan David
c. Staff Members Present –
• Honoré Depew, Staff Liaison
• Ginny Sawyer, Policy and Project Manager
• Cassie Archuleta, Air Quality Program Manager
• Kristie Raymond, Environmental Planner
•
d. Guest(s) –
• None
3. AGENDA REVIEW
4. CITIZEN PARTICIPATION
5. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
a. Drew motioned and Kevin seconded to approve the NRAB May minutes as
amended. Motion carried unanimously. 6-0
6. UNFINISHED BUSINESS
7. NEW BUSINESS
a. Sustainable Funding Revenue Measures – Ginny Sawyer (Policy and
Project Manager)/ Travis Storin (Chief Financial Officer) will provide context
Page 2
07/19/2023 – MINUTES
and background on two potential November ballot measures to raise
awareness amongst board members prior to August 15 (if referred to ballot
staff can no longer proactively present/discuss). City Council will discuss at
July 25 Work Session. (Discussion)
• Discussion | Q + A
• Kevin – Q – So for the Parks and Rec piece, just to reiterate or
clarify, this item is just for the maintenance needs including aquatics
but for new capitol, new items that are in the plan… Ginny – A – No,
this would count. Kevin – Q – This includes new? Ginny – A – 5 Mills
does. 3 Mills is what is needed to cover the park maintenance and
replacement the additional two is where we are looking at. In the
immediate future we’ve got the Southeast Community Center. In like
five years, Mulberry Pool is probably going to die. So, we are going to
need to do something. Any other “new” in the plan we would actually
have some funding to drop on. Kevin – Q – So that is what I was
going to ask. How specific is that additional 2 Mills tied to those
specific efforts or needs? Ginny – A – We worked on that ballot
language today. It says new or existing recreation facilities, or
something similar. We can share those Council materials once they
are out. Kevin – Comment – In my world that would matter and be
important to other needs. Ginny – Comment – We did not say
anything like pickleball courts or bike facilities. We just said new
recreation. Kevin – Q – So that is not something that is in the
upcoming work session? Ginny – A – Not necessarily. Kevin –
Comment – So if there was an opportunity of input from different
interest groups or needs, it still could maybe be helpful ahead of it? I
am just thinking out loud. Ginny – Comment – I think people would
want to think about getting it passed so we probably would want to be
more general at this point in saying this would help to provide major
maintenance and new facilities. Honoré – Comment – The wording I
have is bullet one is fund replacement, accessibility, maintenance,
and upgrades to parks, recreation, and aquatic facilities. Bullet two is
to fund construction of indoor and outdoor recreation and aquatic
facilities. That is close to what Council will see next Tuesday.
• Ginny – Comment – I will tell you while I have you, because it is
confusing, at this point Council has referenced three charter changes,
charter clean ups. One addresses the candidate’s qualification.
Basically, it is saying if you have a felony, you can still run for
Council. Another one is a referendum clean up trying to match dates
should we ever get a referendum in the charter. It is kind of
technically complex. Then another one is looking to move residency
requirements. Our City Manager, department heads, and certain titles
have residency requirements. We’d like to take that out of the charter
and put it in the City Code so that City Council can make exceptions if
needed or change that. The City Manager requirements will stay in
the charter. Right now, it is disappointing if we lose the best
candidate because they live in Wellington. I think it’s unrealistic for
people to be like, “oh you have to move three miles if you want this
job. Good luck finding a home. For now, the requirements would stay
the same and we put them in the code but then we could change
them more easily than once a year, opportunity to go to the voters
Page 3
07/19/2023 – MINUTES
and ask. They also talked last night about possibly referring a ballot
measure that says should Council look at the occupancy
requirements and consider changing them. That language hasn’t
been crafted but I think they might put something like that on the
ballot as well.
• Honoré – Comment – I think one important thing is that the funds can
also be passed through directly to residents. That’s hopefully part of
one of the speaking points that come forward as well. Ginny –
Comment – I will also say I mentioned that once this gets referred,
City staff is kind of out of it. We are just taking interested parties
names to do one more meeting a little like this to run through
speaking points in case there are folks that may be interested in
promoting either of these items once they are referred. If you have
any interest in being part of that let Honoré know, and he can pass
your name onto me.
b. Oil and Gas Operational Standards – Cassie Archuleta (Air Quality Program
Manager) will provide an update regarding current oil and gas operations and
potential for additional regulations in Fort Collins in advance of a Council Work
Session scheduled for September 12. (Discussion)
• Discussion | Q + A
• Lisa – Q – When you say disappear, do you mean abandoned or
what does that mean? Do they just walk away from it and not mitigate
in anyway? Cassie – A – No, there are standards to it. They call it
plug and abandon, but it means they surrender the mineral rights,
and they have to fully reclaim. And there are ongoing concerns about
plugged and abandoned wells that Kristie will touch on too. They
don’t just completely disappear. There is some underground
infrastructure that remains no matter what. These things are reaching
down thousands of feet.
• Kevin – Q – What would those advocacy groups say at this point that
they want to see? Is it just that there should be that monitoring place,
on going, and we should layer on that step. I think your point is the
pace at which the State is moving is so different than it was a year
ago. Do they have a list of exact requests at this point? Cassie – A –
There is a list. One of the highlights of this is financial assurances;
are there enough financial assurances to say they can afford to plug
and abandon their well. That can cost hundreds of thousands of
dollars, and you’ll hear different numbers around that. The State just
last April, adopted financial assurance requirements and so did
Larimer County. You have some redundancy. So, they say, “hey what
if the state doesn’t do it.” There is an example of one of them where
we come back and say it is already there. What’s in the approved
plan by the State is enough and there is pushback saying City get
your own; have your own assurances. There are other examples. Air
quality monitoring is one where the State already requires three
months, for example, of monitoring when you get a new site. The
County requires a lifetime if you are building next to residential areas.
If the county were to implement that, has to have whole database
structures, tracking, and infrastructure resources for that and it will
only apply to new wells. So, we are saying we have some monitoring
Page 4
07/19/2023 – MINUTES
resources within our City budget and we can apply that to existing
wells. So those are some examples of where it is kind of nuanced
and we haven’t heard anything yet but that’ll move us toward
objectives any faster. You can always say it has six months
monitoring to six years. You can always strengthen that but we’re
looking for the impact too. Kevin – Q – In the case of that one with
their quality monitoring and the county requirement is that
incorporated and unincorporated or would that only be in
unincorporated? Cassie – A – County is unincorporated, so that is
one of the edits we are asking the County; can you make that apply
here. The State is, of course, the whole state and every new well.
Kevin – Comment – so that is covered assuming the trust in the
county level with the state level also having something. Cassie –
Comment – Yes, assuming it would ever matter, because even for
the County it is only triggered for a new well application. Anything
existing is grandfathered in. So even if we had it, it is a question of if
we would ever even use it. Kevin – Q – Is there monitoring in play at
either of those levels ongoing for the State or County for legacy wells.
Just identifying these problems like the field, you mentioned. How
would that be identified other than somebody’s nose essentially that
started it. Cassie – A – Often that is what gets someone out with a
camera. Somebody notices something and a complaint is filed. State
will send somebody or an advocacy group, like Earthworks has their
own cameras. That is why we bought the County a camera so we can
have closer resources to respond in a timely matter. The thing we are
working on right now is called fence line monitoring. It’s not a super
robust thing, but its this trace of molecular organics that if you have a
peak, you can react to go check it out with the OGI camera. So, it’s
like a continuous nose that’s out there. Kevin – Q – So that would be
for all sites, or near all those existing 17 or so wells. Cassie – A –
They are planning one next to the tank battery These other ones we
have never heard a complaint or concern about in the history of those
wells because they don’t do much. Kevin – Q – So it is a coupling of
there are not new wells happening and the legacy ones are kind of
clustered. They are either these (ones shown on screen) or getting
fence line monitoring. So, your point is we are pretty covered.
Because I agree, I mean, we should never have the point where
someone’s nose is the indicator because there’s a huge problem and
who knows how long it has been going on. That is not a good
scenario.
• Danielle – Q – Can you elaborate on the complaints about the OGI
camera? What gaps exist in monitoring plugged and abandoned wells
relative to operating ones? Cassie – A – Plugging and abandoning
involves wells out of services. There’s no more production there.
There is some cement that is poured down in the casing and there
are a lot of regulations to how you can do that. Concerns are cracks
over time. What if there’s pressure that comes back up. People
continue to be concerned about plugged and abandoned wells. The
State is looking more closely at that because emissions from plugged
and abandoned wells are not well quantified. For us the County has
gone and facilitated checks of these. We have done soil sampling
Page 5
07/19/2023 – MINUTES
and soil gas sampling around these, and we have detected nothing
that can be attributed to oil and gas wells. Somethings attributed to
agriculture is what we’ve found. You can use the OGI camera at a
plugged and abandoned well but all you are going to find with that is if
there is an active gas leak at that well and we use that mostly for our
tank batteries. What we’re concerned about most with the plugged
and abandoned wells is any water or soil contamination, especially
since these were never gas wells to begin with. These have been oil
wells and now they are zero pressure oil wells. Danielle – Q – What
about water monitoring and injection wells? Cassie – A – We do have
water monitoring at plugged and abandoned wells, injection and all
active wells. I can look into that one more Daniel. There is no City
requirement for monitoring around the injection wells. Nor did the City
permit the injection wells. These predated any City activity. Danielle –
Q – What about the complaints about the OGI cameras? Cassie – A
– I can speak generally to what complaints are. We think the OGI
camera is a really good thing. It’s expensive and its hard to come by.
So that was a big investment. Well relatively. It was about $100,000
for the City to buy that for the County. The limitations of an OGI
camera is what we’ve talked about. You have to be there with the
camera to detect the leak, so it is not continuous monitoring. The
camera is not. Kevin – Q – But you said the camera was triggered by
the complaints. It has to be like we have to go check this out and then
you mobilize the team that you’re working with at the County that has
been trained to do that. Cassie – A – Yeah, so there can be a
responsive inspection or a proactive one. The County is also regularly
going out and checking. Neither one of those continuous but we’re
trying to do more proactive ones now that they have staffing. Kevin –
Q – So I guess to the point of plugged and abandoned, is there ever
a cadence to which they will just go out with the camera once every
five years to make sure there’s nothing unexpected happening.
Cassie – A – Yes, the County is proactively inspecting those. The
State does not have plugged and abandoned auditing requirements.
As far as the rest of it, the operator has to do leak detection and
repair plan. I think that one’s annually. We have an intergovernmental
agreement with the County, and I believe we set up a 3-month
Candance with that, but I will have to double check on it. That was
part of our agreement. We will buy you a camera and you do some
inspections of our wells. Kevin – Q – Are plugged and abandoned
included? Cassie – A – Yes. Kevin – Comment – Theres not only
mistrust in the state level but there’s certainly mistrust in operators’
longevity. To say great, they have this plan but then they’re gone
because they have a bunch of legacy assets, so they are not there to
do that. That is where I think a lot of the mistrust and conversation
wise is that we can’t rely on that thing. It’s just good to get that.
Cassie – Comment – Another mistrust I will add is before Senate Bill
181 the mission of the State regulatory body was to extract minerals,
now their mission is to do that in a way that’s protective of the
environment. That is a little nuance in language. They were pretty
aggressive and preempted some of our local jurisdiction, so a lot of
the mistrust comes from that as well.
Page 6
07/19/2023 – MINUTES
• Danielle – Comment – It seems like there may be an opportunity for
messaging around reporting possible smells, visible leaks, etc. from
wells to the public. Cassie – Comment – Yes, we have some
highlights on the oil and gas City website. The State has resources
for that but what we’ve talked about too is how do we get the people
most impacted the best connected. We’ve talked about things like
going to the HOA in the area and even doing door hangers to just say
things about how to report leaks and spills. Kristie will talk a little bit
about people moving in and notifications that come to people who are
moving into houses in those areas to make sure they are aware there
are oil and gas wells.
• It is going to Council for discussion on Sept 12th. Cassie mentioned
they are trying to figure out gaps now and if Council wants
redundancy and if we should be investing City resources in that.
• Kevin – Comment – To that point and maybe this is a well-known
thing for City Council, for Broomfield who I think you said adopted
further at the city level is it because the county level does not have
the same level to where Larimer has gone for example? Cassie – A –
I’d say it would be more to the fact that they have over 100 wells,
often in close proximity to residences, and they adopted their
regulations before the State had finished going through theirs.
There’s a little bit of everyone going all at once, so there is going to
be a lot of redundancy there and they also have to own some mineral
rights, so they get some money back from their oil and gas. They use
that to hire the staff that works in oil and gas. Most places have fully
devoted staff for oil and gas because they have hundreds of wells,
and it makes sense. Here we have a handful of old ones and it’s an
add on for your air quality and planning folks so we just don’t have
the resources, but that can be a question for Council on the
resources to do more with oil and gas.
• Matt – Q – Is there a lot of speculations for new wells that you have
heard of? Cassie – A – None and the process is several years from
what we understand from identifying a reserve that we want to tap
into and making the case. Now they have to do alternative site
analysis and you can do horizontal drilling, so you don’t have to be
right above a resource to tap into a resource. It would almost be
impossible to make a case that we need to be in this residential area
to tap this resources and we are on the edge of a basin so there is
not much to access here. Weld County is more in this base. So, there
is no speculation that anyone is interested. That said though, our land
use restrictions that we just got in place are pretty strict and places
like Colorado Oil and Gas Association and American Petroleum
Institute are seeing it as an example that they don’t want other
communities to do. So even though there is no speculated
development, we are still hearing some challenges from oil and gas
advocacy groups.
• Kevin – Q – With regards to injection there is such a high volume of
water attributed with some of the horizontal and other drilling
techniques, including injection that must occur there. Does anyone
know what those water sources are? One thing we think about a lot
Page 7
07/19/2023 – MINUTES
obviously is being thoughtful of the use of water. Would there be any
other regulations related to using City water for this purpose? Cassie
– A – Oh, sure. For our specific oil filed, this is the water flood
injection. Another water use conversation is hydraulic fracturing. For
water flood injection they recirculate the water, and there’s some
produced water and underground water. So, they are not introducing
any new water is what they tell us. They just recirculate it. For
hydraulic fracturing and the huge amounts of water used there in
places like Weld County, the State is looking at more and more
regulations about how you dispose of that and whether you have to
treat it. If we got new wells in the City and they wanted water, they
would have to go through our whole development review process.
Housing developers are having trouble finding enough water, so they
have to disclose and negotiate pay like any other development. Kevin
– Q – I didn’t know if all sites have to have water onsite or if they try
getting that injection water is there an opportunity to be like no you
can’t do that from here at all? That just seems like a mismatch I am
curious about as far as using water from certain sources for that
purpose wherever they may take place like if you go over the County
line. Cassie – A – It is one of the big concerns for Weld County staff
is how much truck traffic is involved especially in the preproduction
phases when the water is getting introduced. They don’t need a
continuous supply is the thing. So does it make sense to pipeline the
water.
c. Oil and Gas Reverse Setbacks (New Development Near Existing Wells) –
Kristie Raymond (Environmental Planner will seek feedback on development
standards for oil and gas. Known as “reverse setbacks” these standards were
last updated in 2018 and are organized in the Land Use Code. The City of Fort
Collins currently requires new residential lots be a minimum of 2,000 feet from
all oil and gas facilities. This process seeks to update the reverse setback
development standards to reflect recent changes in state regulations and
lessons learned over the past 4 years. Staff is seeking a recommendation
from the board ahead of City Council’s First Reading of an Ordinance on
September 5. (Action)
• Discussion | Q + A
• Dawson – Q – (Regarding the plugged and abandoned wells) even
that is consistent with the 2,000 ft? Kristie – A – Yes, once it was
updated. Dawson – Q – Even if its not be taken out? Kristie – A –
Because per the COGCC is more restricted. However, I will get into
the proposal where we differentiate.
• Lisa – Q – So the developer would do the monitoring? Kristie – A –
The developer would do the monitoring. That is where it gets tricky
when some people are like monitor forever. The developer leaves
eventually, so who is doing that?
• Dawson – A – Clarification question for me. When we say buffer zone
and we’re saying the 150, 500, and 2,000 ft that means both building
a home and also the addition of a new well. Kristie – A – No, I am not
talking about new wells. The well is already there. So, my piece is
what can we allow development to do around a well that is already
there, drilled and abandoned, producing injections, plugged and
Page 8
07/19/2023 – MINUTES
abandoned. Ideally, we would like drilled and abandoned to be
plugged and abandoned but the wells are already there. I do
development review. When someone brings a development proposal
in that’s what I’m looking at, the code. This is just a code clean up
that’s already there, just revising it. Kristie clarified the difference
between a setback and reverse setback.
• Lisa – Q – Is that the norm that the developer does the monitoring?
Kristie – A – Well, not everyone requires monitoring. If it is currently
operating, the developer does the monitoring. Not all cities require
monitoring. Kristie shared a slide what other cities have. A lot don’t
require it, that is just something we have required. We found that five-
year timeline wasn’t really doing a lot so do you do one year, 50
years? Ideally, we would like someone to come in and plug and
abandon these drilled and abandoned wells.
• Kelly – Q – What is the approximate cost to plug and abandon a well?
Kristie – A – It varies based on depth of the well. Cassie – A – And
some of the infrastructure, whether there are any pipelines that you’re
also removing, and the age. We had an evaluation on that and
averaged them all around $100,000. It’s a lot more for the ones that
in involved in the battery because there’s so much surface
disturbance there. Kristie – A – It’s different based on how deep the
well, the age of the well; older wells have more issues. Lisa –
Comment – But it sounds like if there were going to be a problem, it
would be evident in the first year or so and there’s no need to monitor
longer term. Kristie – Comment – There may never be a problem. Or
there could be a problem in 100 years or one day. So that’s why
we’re like you have to do five years because this well has been
plugged and abandoned. Do one site assessment and see the levels
there and if there are elevated levels then let’s clean it up before we
do any development.
• Danielle – Q – Given the alkaline and soils in this area, I suspect the
risk of casing failure is abnormally high and that failures are not
gradual but a queue. This would support ongoing periodic monitoring
of plugged and abandoned wells perhaps once every five years. Has
an interval for monitoring been discussed? Kristie – A – It has.
There’s a lot of questions on who does the monitoring over a certain
period of time, but it has been brought up at one of the stakeholder
meetings and I’m sure Kirk has more discussions on this as well. I’m
sorry, I don’t know what those exactly are, but I will make a note of
that. Kevin – Comment – It’s kind of like we just don’t know what we
don’t know scenarios but maybe what we do know is what Danielle
pointed out or at least in some case studies we had one that was
always being monitored every five years. That would be at least
something to give a data point back should we be doing this for all
because the cost. There are just unknowns. Kristie – Comment – I
don’t know if they have all been plugged at the same time. They may
be on all different time frames.
• Kevin – Q – On your summary slide, for number two (allow
modification of standards for active well buffers, no less than 500’)
can you elaborate on what that is. Kristie – A – It’s modification of
Page 9
07/19/2023 – MINUTES
standards where we received a proposal on an injection well and they
asked for that 500 feet and it can only go as far as a 500 foot for the
producing and injection wells. Kevin – Q – Wouldn’t that be less than
State standard? Kristie – A – Yeah, and I don’t know exactly how that
works to be honest. Kevin – Comment – I am not clear why we are
going there. Why don’t we just not have that, especially because it’s
so specific. So as a developer it feels like I am going to go after that if
it says there can be a standard down to 500. Great, that gives me a
ton more viable developable land or units. I feel like if we’re going to
2,000 in the State why do we want to call that out so specifically. It
feels counter unless I am not getting it. Kristie – Comment – The
current language it has is the planning and zoning commission may
grant a modification of standards pursuant to division 2.8 to reduce
the 2,000 foot distance to no less than 500 feet provided the applicant
provides a phase to environmental site assessment as part of the
modification request showing that levels of oil and gas contaminants,
if any, are within Federal environmental protection agency or State
Health Department standards. The reasoning behind that is there is
not a lot of scientific proof out there. Kevin – Q – Is that just for
injection? Kristie – A – It’s not just for injection. It is put under both
categories. But that is the reasoning I believe that it was added, is
these injection wells, there is not a lot of literature out there saying
that they post a lot of risk. Its more the risk is unknown. So, there
wasn’t a lot either way. Cassie – A – The main risk we have talked
about is what if the injection becomes a producing well. I know we
touched on that. I mentioned the State stopped an application like
that, but we still want to pay attention to worse case scenario. Since
you are popping stuff into the ground there is not as much as an air
risk. Just the mechanics of the well, we know there’s less risk from an
injection well that is pumping water in rather than a producing well
that is pulling some kind of product out.
• Lisa – Q – What does that mean, an injection well? Kristie – A –
Essentially water is injected in and there’s small reserves of oil left in
there and it pressurizes and pushes the oil up. Then the oil and gas is
separated out. It is a closed loop system. Lisa – Comment – Then
they keep using the same water and contaminating the farm water.
Kristie – Comment – The wells are sealed and done correctly, it’s a
closed loop system. Lisa – Q – And it’s not fracking, this is something
different? Kristie – A – It’s not fracking. It’s not waste water injection.
If you look at scientific literature, that is what you keep coming up
against. These enhanced oil recovery wells, there’s not a lot there
because it’s just the water and then the gas gets separated out. So, it
is a closed loop system.
• Kevin – Comment – I guess my reaction is if we don’t feel like we
know or that that could stop producing but it’s not plugged and
abandoned so it’s still open. Maybe the infrastructure has a leak
when it’s sitting there for five years, not producing. I feel
uncomfortable with bearing on the side of we don’t know much
because there is not much literature, so let’s go lower. Let’s protect
and say it’s the same number. We don’t know what we don’t know so
it’s the same number. We want to keep the population and the natural
Page 10
07/19/2023 – MINUTES
resources away from that. It’s in my direction and it doesn’t feel
comfortable.
• Lisa – Comment – I echo what Kevin said about number two. Why
would you put that in there. This is the role but if you don’t like the
role, here’s how you could challenge it. Why would you set that up
and give everyone the opportunity to drag you into meetings and
lawyers.
• Matt – Q – Does number eight in the proposed rules (Add prohibition
on detached occupiable buildings from existing buildings located
within the oil and gas buffer) mean that if I am a homeowner or
property owner within the oil and gas zone, I am not allowed to put an
ADU on my property. Kristie – A – If there is an existing home within
the buffer, you cannot add an ADU. You can add non occupiable
buildings or structures. You just can’t add occupancy.
• Danielle – Comment – Well service companies for residential water
wells seem very experienced and confident in their assessments of
how quickly water well casements degrade in Fort Collins soils, and
they may be useful stakeholders to consult the considered interval
monitoring.
• Kevin – Q – I guess to Matt’s question on the ADUs and congregation
areas, I haven’t had a lot of time to think about this but there are
some nuances to that that feel strange. These people who own these
properties are living there. To be like you can’t have a community
swing set but they are living there 100% of the time, even though they
are in a structure in that buffer, they are living there 100% of the time.
They are in their house, in the buffer or in their backyard, in the
buffer. So, it’s not congregated. I mean if there’s going to be an
imminent explosion or something but if it’s just, we don’t want people
to be near it like they are already near it. So as a homeowner, I feel
like that would be tough. I would wrestle with that to be like, this is our
house. So what is the difference? If I am right there at the swing set
versus…I get the intent but similarly with ADUs, its like grandma’s
living in the basement right now, she can’t live out back in the ADU
but its already this known thing. As long as it’s a known thing that you
live in this buffer zone. I hope you knew that before but if you’re trying
to develop just a heads up that you are still in the Zone. I don’t know.
That just jumped out as like you’re almost picking. Maybe their
property values are already impacted in some way, just by being
where they are but then to be like anyone else with a similar sort of
property scale or neighborhood type can add ADUs, but you guys
can’t. I mean they are already in the zone. Kristie – Comment – Or
some of the neighbors can and some can’t. Kevin – Comment –
Yeah, that’s a weird one. Kristie – Comment – Yeah that one is
marked over many discussions.
• Dawson – Q – Do we have any data around the number of
households that are impacted by this jump? Kristie – A – No, but I
can show you a map. For instance, proposed development on that
vacant right side, that is impacted.
• Matt – Comment – Kevin’s comments touched on my sentiments. If it
Page 11
07/19/2023 – MINUTES
can be shown through monitoring that this is safe, why impact the
personal, proper decisions and values? Kristie – Comment – There
still the risk of perception. There are a lot of holes in the literature
currently. We just carried what we know at this point in time. Kevin –
Comment – Maybe there is a difference between a developer and a
property owner. As a developer you don’t have your vested interest.
You have your vested interest but it’s a short-term thing. As a
property owner you are already there. Kristie – Q – So how do you
feel about an HOA putting a park in? Because I get what you are
saying an ADU is maybe one person. Kevin – A – If it was an existing
development, it would be hard. Its already there and there’s a
development proposal for a neighborhood park, right? Because we
are talking about reverse setbacks, not part of a brand-new
development? Kristie – Comment – We are talking about both. It
could be a brand-new development and they could say, okay we got
the memo, no homes but we are going to put a park in this buffer. We
are going to use that land to put a park in. Kevin – Comment – That I
resonate with more. It’s the existing stuff that I’m uncomfortable with,
where it’s my existing neighbor or homeowner wants to do “x”. Kristie
– Comment – In some of these neighborhood’s wells have been
plugged and abandoned to go ahead and allow more usage of the
neighborhood. And more of that could be plugged and abandoned.
• Kevin – Q – My only other question was to your point on changing the
use from injecting to producing and the fact that it has sort of been
tried and is an ambiguous area. Is there opportunity for City level
regulation to say anytime a use change is proposed that that does put
into effect whatever the new standards are. That feels like a loophole
and if it’s not covered by the State or County, that feels like it is
hanging out there. Kristie – A – That get complicated. Cassie – A –
We had success in one case where we stopped it. Can they do it? Is
there a challenge that would work? We don’t know. Our land use
code gets trigged by a change in use. So, the new setbacks and
zoning thing say that. That is regular setbacks, not reverse setbacks.
So that also restricts the change in use. Kevin – Q – Is a change in
use triggered by a change in the way the well is being used? Is that a
change in use by city code today? Cassie – A – Yes, it is. The fear is
what if the State challenges that. Kevin – Comment – Sounds like we
have a vehicle, that shouldn’t be something people are going like,
anytime this could…no it kicks in all those things. Kristie – Comment
– and that is the primary reason why injection and producing are both
at that same buffer. Injecting seems like there’s less risk potential but
if it can switch… Cassie – Comment – Correct me if I am wrong but I
think that is why the planning and zoning review was built in there. If
there could be some demonstration of that modification. Then you put
the illness on the developer to demonstrate that this isn’t going to
change from a shut in or injecting well.
• Danielle – Comment – I would argue that currently we can only show
that it is safe for a single point in time. Considerable future risks exist.
• Kristie – Comment – There is a planning and zoning hearing
tomorrow and then brought to Council September 5th. Kevin – Q –
Would there be opportunity, just with some of this discussion, is there
Page 12
07/19/2023 – MINUTES
opportunity to introduce either meeting minutes or anything to that
Council discussion? Kristie – A – If you all have something you would
like to write up and share to Council, that would be helpful; any
comments or feedback you have. I know there’s stakeholder groups
providing feedback as well. We’ve been talking to lots of different
people. Kevin – Comment – I am not ready to support but I
appreciate the early discussion and I think that it’d be nice to see
where it goes. Kristie – Comment – The main piece of it is to clean
and refine the current land use code. I do realize there’s some details
that you still have questions about, and I don’t know how that would
be worded on your end. Dawson – Comment – Maybe that’s what I
am getting stuck on here too about this next step is based off a lot of
points that people have brought up during this. I feel weird saying we
as the Board general support it when we are thinking about other
things. Danielle’s point is really sticking with me about the
incremental monitoring. That is something I would want to push for
personally. So that is where I am getting a little iffy about the general
support piece. Kristie – Comment – Would you say there are some
pieces you would support? Honore – Comment – Reviewing the
minutes and the conversation you all had with your Council Liaison in
May, with Julie Pignataro and you know different Council Members
rely on Board and Commission recommendations to different degrees
but certainly the likelihood that they would comb through the entire
conversation may be limited. Something pointed that is clear and
simplified that can be extracted and highlighted by staff would usually
be the most influential and I don’t think that has to be a wholesale but
if there are pieces of it that you want to make sure council knew that
could also be teased in a memo. Dawson – Comment – I feel a
memo makes more sense to me personally where we can make
these defining pieces of what we support. I don’t know if other people
feel differently about that. Lisa – Comment – What seems like we
could say, I think we support the notion of moving from a 500 foot to a
2,00o foot limit. Dawson – Comment – I don’t think it would be best
to even do that. Kristie – Comment – That part is the clean-up of the
language, so it is less confusing for developers and staff. But then
bringing it to that piece, you have the drilled and abandoned well in
that 2,000 foot as well. You could say you support all but… Lisa –
Comment – The concern about the impact of private property and
how they’re utilizing it. For example, the playgrounds and ADUs.
Kevin – Comment – So, we need to go through one through nine and
see what level of support we have and then also any of the addons
like monitoring to be explored or others like that. Dawson –
Comment – and it makes more sense to me to do that in a memo.
The Board discussed the logistics of the memo. Kristie will send draft
code language to the Board. They will speak at the next meeting
more on the memo.
• Danielle – Comment – I will be more explicit. We purchased a 60-
year-old home with three water wells and two of them were collapsed
because of the alkaline soil degrading the casing, and every well
company we spoke with said that was expected. I think incorporating
a recommendation for interval monitoring, language acknowledging
Page 13
07/19/2023 – MINUTES
uncertainty and change based on evolving science, and support for
current stated changes would be my recommendation.
• The board will go through points one through nine (proposed
changes) in the presentation to discuss if they support or don’t
support the proposed changes during their next meeting.
• Dawson motions and Kelly seconds to write a memo examining the
summary of proposed changes, with considerations for an addition of
making our suggestions on the proposed changes, with the additional
element of adding a point of interval monitoring on sites. Motion
passes unanimously 6-0.
8. BOARD MEMBER REPORTS
a. None
9. STAFF REPORTS
10. OTHER BUSINESS
a. Six Month Calendar Review
• August
• Finalizing O&G memo
• Land Use Code landscape standard updates
• Update on Land Use Code
• September
• Economic Health Strategic Plan
• Downtown Parking
• Advancing Transit Initiatives
11. ADJOURNMENT
a. (8:21pm)
Minutes approved by a vote of the Board/Commission on 11/15/23