HomeMy WebLinkAboutNatural Resources Advisory Board - Minutes - 04/19/2023Page 1
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Natural Resources Advisory Board
REGULAR MEETING
Wednesday, April 19, 2023 – 6:00 PM
222 Laporte Ave. Colorado Room
1. CALL TO ORDER: 6:07 PM
2. ROLL CALL
a. Board Members Present –
• Lisa Andrews
• Danielle Buttke
• Bryan David
• Kevin Krause
• Dawson Metcalf (Chair)
• Kelly Stewart (Vice Chair)
• Matt Zoccali
b. Board Members Absent –
• Drew Derderian
• Barry Noon
c. Staff Members Present –
• Honoré Depew, Staff Liaison
• Noah Beals, Development Review Manager
• Ginny Sawyer, Sr. Policy and Project Manager
d. Guest(s) –
• None
3. AGENDA REVIEW
4. CITIZEN PARTICIPATION
5. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
a. Dawson motioned and Matt seconded to approve the NRAB February
minutes. Motion carried unanimously. 7-0
b. Lisa motioned and Matt seconded to approve the NRAB March minutes.
Motion carried unanimously. 7-0
6. UNFINISHED BUSINESS
7. NEW BUSINESS
a. Land Use Code - Noah Beals (Development Review Manager) shared an
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update on the Land Use Code Phase 1 Update. The update focused on the
input from 04.11.23 Council Work Session and gave an overview of what we
are hearing from the community. Staff was there to listen to new topics and
receive comments on the Land Use Code update. Multiple upcoming Council
Work Sessions on this topic are scheduled. (Discussion)
• Discussion | Q + A
• Kevin – Q – Just on engagement I am curious, I saw the numbers for
example on that previous slide with those who have reached out via
email and so forth. I know this is probably an imperfect question but
especially knowing the postcards went out. I guess in my world, I
don’t see a lot of the folks who are in the middle who are likely
supportive of some of the directions of the changes that were put out
there originally still engaging with this stuff. So, I have some
reservations. A lot of the inquiries are those who may have strongly
opposed and felt left out, where others are like, yeah, my brother lives
in Seattle and they have ADU and it’s great. You know just the folks
that are expecting that this is the way it is going and may not, with
two kids running around, go to other things. I know that’s a problem
with anything but just directionally and the importance of all this from
the collective goals, I don’t know how to think about that. How do you
think about them, the true significant/public perception, and
preferences when it is just so hard to get some people who in this
case, my guess is more likely to support. Noah – A – I will say the
way this presentation is outlined focuses on the concerns and I think
that’s something we should try to figure out how to document better to
support as well and try to quantify that as what we are doing here
with concerns as well. I don’t have a good answer for you right now.
Kevin – Comment – That is a good way to put it, like the way you did
was showing that you know these concerns are some portion of the
feedback but there is a lot of folks who are either happy and
minimally engaged or unengaged but not opposed because there’s
definitely our group and some others that have supported and
directionally its great but I know from working in other areas, its hard
to engage busy families. So are we hearing from all the busy families
in these emails or are we hearing from other people who have that
time. Again it’s a common theme problem. Noah – A – I will say
especially during the signature process we got a lot of emails on both
sides. When I say we, I’m including Council who received emails as
well stating, we are strongly supportive or we’re strongly against this.
Again, it is probably something we should highlight like out of all
these emails we did get some support in that and trying to document
that and present it as well.
• Lisa – Q – I have a question, how is it determined which project
undergoes which type of review? Noah – A – The way it’s determined
is there is this land use table in the code that tells you what your level
of review is. Lisa – Q – So it is predetermined? Noah – A – Yes, it is
outlined. Nobody has to make a decision here. You bring your project
here and then we look up to see which review you are going to do.
• Dawson – Q – Thinking about the need of housing and then thinking
of the amount, if you have these numbers I really appreciate it but if
you don’t I totally understand, but how many people come into Fort
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Collins to work on the daily and reside in another external community.
I am thinking of the environmental impact from cars, transportation
and all these pieces that are coming in and out of Fort Collins. I am
just curious if you can give us some numbers. Do you have any
numbers around that? Noah – A – I would love to give you numbers
but I can’t. I can tell you something I heard from Josh Birks in our
Economic Health Department mention in a work session the other
day. We still have right now, more people that during the day come
and work in the city than we have people who leave to work outside
the city. So if we have a population of about 170,000 right now and
growing, that population increases every day for work. Honoré – A –
Pretty sure the number I have heard is about 30,000 car trips a day
coming into Fort Collins. Dawson – Q – Just coming in? Honoré – A –
Yes.
• Kevin – Comment – Dawson, I think that is a really good point
because much of this stuff just gets down into the weeds. So, I guess
a question related to that would be in these engagement sessions are
they starting with this is why we care about density. For example
because right now you are concerned about more traffic on your
neighborhood street but the bigger issues is all the traffic on all of our
streets including those that have higher speeds, more issues from
collision etc. Potential standpoint on top of all the environmental stuff
but if you are not starting with that in these conversations, then
everyone is just going to go why are you messing with my stuff and
it’s like people are going to commute, they are going to work here,
whoever that I, or have a need here on a daily basis. Starting with
that then you say this is why but if it’s just we think this is what we
have to do, then everyone is like I don’t like all this change. The
change is going to hit you one way or another, so how do you frame
that in a way that is not just talking details. What’s missing is what’s
going to happen as the alternative to that. Noah – Comment – I think
we try to start with that, even this presentation or the presentation to
Council is like, hey these are adopted plans, this is what’s talked
about, why are we doing these changes but I think it’s turning the
crank on that a little more to this is why they adopted plan census.
Kevin – Comment – Because the engagement wasn’t necessarily
there on the adopted plans. Noah – Comment – Yeah, I think that
was a thing that has been hard to convey to our community, that what
we are doing is an implementation. All that public outreach we did for
this does count and I think there has been a perception of we should
have started from square one but that would not validate the plans
our Council has adopted. Kevin – Comment – I would just say
something tangible to me, if you can tell that without having to go
read the plan is more traffic on all our streets and the highway is
going to be increasing one thing that people can be like “oh”. Just
some way to do that. I don’t know, maybe that’s too simplistic but that
makes me understand it faster than anything. I feel like you are trying
to really quickly get to your point and get everyone up to speed on all
these things that a lot of us have been aware of, involved with, and
seeing the process on but it is a hard ask. Honoré – Comment – I am
happy to share a couple of the slides that our Environmental Services
Director shared last week at an event that was hosted on this topic
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over at Wolverine Public House to try and bring in that environmental
perspective.
• Danielle – Comment – I want to echo a lot of Kevin and Dawson’s
comments. There are some phenomenal studies that have show that
there is a disproportionate correlation between xenophobia, racial
resentment, and denial of climate change and being more vocal and
more willing, more listened to and also being more likely to be in a
position of leadership. There are excellent studies from the Yale
Center for Climate Communication. So, Kevin’s earlier comment
about the vocal minority being heard and having their voice carry
more weight is a really common problem with a lot of the
engagement. I want to highlight that the City of Fort Collins and the
CSU Center for Public Engagement and Public Deliberation have
won awards for their work. I take this personally because I am so
proud of the work the City has done and does in these engagement
actions. When this public backlash to the Land Use Code was going
forward I spoke to every neighbor I could speak to and every person
having a table in front of a store, market, or corner trying to get
signatures to try and understand what their concerns were. The most
common talking point that people voiced was that there would be no
review. That developers would be able to come in a raise a historic
house and put in a six-unit apartment building with no public review
whatsoever. There is a process, there is a review. It is a different
public review but it also as Kevin said, people are weighing the status
quo versus these changes when in reality the status quo is going
away. What the tradeoff is, is more congestion, more traffic, more
pollution, and higher housing costs. I think it is important to be clear
we are not comparing the status quo to these Land Use Code
changes. We are comparing a future that is more congestion, more
expensive, less equitable, higher pollution. I think that’s an important
point. Then again, I think that review process was a talking point that
came up and a lot of those people that were hosting tables that I
spoke with this summer. I just want to commend you. I really feel like
the City is doing a phenomenal job on this. It is going to be hard not
to talk this personally, but I hope that’s not the case because I just
really commend you all for your work and such a difficult contentious
issue. If we aren’t sticking our necks out there sometimes, we are not
moving the needle in the direction we want it to but it still has to be a
difficult process. I am excited to hear about these engagement events
and we will support them in every way possible. I also totally agree
that prior engagement should absolutely count because it is still
meaningful and those voices are not void because it happened after
this backlash.
• Honoré – Q – Would it be helpful perhaps if I just shared a couple of
these slides. Int thinking about the angle that this board has taken,
and it’s been echoed or been demonstrated in Danielle’s and Kevin’s
comments, it ties to those ideas of ‘how can we tell a story that
includes environmental impacts?’. I think a lot of the people who
spent time gathering signatures would consider themselves
environmentalists and yet there was a disconnect in some of their
minds around the idea of conservation or preserving Fort Collins and
what the future might hold. *Honoré shared slides*
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• Lisa – Q – I have a question about that urban infill on the previous
slide. Is that increase density? Is that another way of saying that?
Noah – A – Yes, we are recognizing there is not a lot of open land left
in the City so for density to increase we are going to have to infill
what is already developed.
• Kevin – Q – Could you go back a couple of slides and I might be over
indexing on this so take it for what it is worth, but I think maybe to
what I was saying earlier like consideration for language. So, say that
the population increases is sort of a less tangible thing, but to be like
28-30% of our congestion is caused by in commuters. It’s like why is
there so much back up at this light? The more that those everyday
experiences of I’m trying to get to school or work or whatever those
everyday things will resonate more. I’d be like on this Board, in our
context and your department we’re at the tip of the sphere so that’s
there’s a recognition of these connections but not everyone else has
the exposure and its connecting those dots as clearly as possible to
tell them a story that resonates but still builds up to the fact that its
going t help emissions and air quality and so forth. That framing to
me is just so important because climate change is going to hit
everyone in one way or another but from an everyday perspective,
that is what is going to hit us all in a different way. Honoré –
Comment – Personal experiences. Kevin – Yes like the population
increases, okay. This stuff to try and catch people if that is our goal.
• Kevin – Q – Is there anything we can do now to express support for
any component of this? Noah – A – No, I think today I just want to
kind of give you guys an update and where we’re at, what we’re doing
and really if you let your neighbors know invite people to get engaged
in our processes or events that would be wonderful. I like what
Danielle said, we need to better frame the support that we are getting
with publicizing the concerns too.
• Lisa – Q – What is the best way to know about these neighborhood
walks and stuff like that? Noah – A – Going to our website,
fcgov.com/housing and even if you get to the City’s front page, it is
spotlighted right now and has a link. All the events are advertised
there.
• Honoré – Q – In terms of timing for a return visit and discussion with
this Board in advance of Council action, should we think about late
summer or when would a memo or other sort of input from this Board
for Council consideration be most helpful? Noah – A – I think that
you’d probably want to see the alternatives and what is being
proposed first and so that would be late summer, maybe early
September. We will be going to Council hopefully late September.
Honoré – Comment – They meet the third week of the month so
probably that third week in August would be good.
b. Sustainable Revenue - Ginny Sawyer (Sr. Policy and Project Manager)
shared information and discussions about options for funding mechanisms for
review gaps, including Parks, Transit, Housing, and Climate. Ginny was
seeking feedback and board member input prior to an April 25 City Council
Work Session. (Discussion)
• Discussion | Q + A
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• Bryan – Q – I had a question on the sales tax, does the 10 million
incorporate anticipated visitor spending and then the 145-231
increase per household, is that just the 10 million divided by 78. How
is the cost being distributed? Ginny – A – I need to ask because I see
what you are saying. We did an estimate based on our residents and
yet we are saying it’s going to be subsidized by visitors. So, what
percentage of the visitors play into that. I don’t know. Honoré –
Comment – I am sure to be prepared to answer for Council.
• Kevin – Q – Why was substance in 2024 again? Ginny – A – I think
just trying to be judicious and not put how much tolerance do you
have when you’re working to your ballot and PSD wants some
money, and the County wants some money, and we want money,
and we want money again. I think we are just trying to be cognizant of
that. Honoré – Comment – And these scenarios are just things for
Council and the public to react to. There are so many variables and
this is why it has been such a long process with the Council Finance
Committee, because we are trying to mix and match all these
different things and trying to funnel it down but they’ve left it really
pretty open. It’s going to be a complicated conversation with Council
next Tuesday. Our wizards over in finance have built a pretty cool tool
that allows Council to look in real time what it would be like if they
chose this from column A and this from column B and attached this to
that and so it could quickly demonstrate the impacts.
• Lisa – Q – Do you know roughly how long people have foreseen this
$40 million deficit? Ginny – A – So if we go back on that slide that
has the four plans. Parks tries to compete every year in our budget
cycle with the general fund and we give some amount for an irrigation
system, or we give some amount for the lights at Rolland Moore, but
it is never enough to really make great strides. Two steps forward,
one step back kind of thing. That is one I think we could say we have
seen. The others – transit, climate, housing, these are sort of our
aspirational goals and I call them aspiration even though I think we all
want them, and they are needed. They are foundational but it is not a
deficit necessarily. These are things we want to achieve and so to
achieve those this is what it is going to cost. Honoré – Comment –
Definitely gets into a bit of political and philosophical territory around
how you define deferred maintenance. That’s what we talk about in
the park system and people have also talked about that and these
other elements, these other realms as well. Ginny – Comment –
Yeah, parks are hard. We have dedicated funding to build them and
no dedicated funding to maintain them.
• Kevin – Comment – I guess spoken back to the substance, I love the
fact, if that could be, I think you mentioned it was previously tied to
Parks and Rec feels like more of a complimentary and unique way to
the activities we want to promote. Not that we want to detract from
others but it’s great. It just feels like a great counterpoint to some of
that stuff. Even though many of us enjoy both sides of it. It feels like
it’s more of an instant on like the property tax to take a couple of
years. It is not insignificant. Ginny – Comment – and Parks can
probably hang on for another year because the budget we are in is
2023/2024. Kevin – Comment – Even with the sales tax, something
that jumped out to me more recently than ever is I have noticed it. If
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you end up shopping at Scheels or Costco take a look at the receipt
because its crazy what we are paying in terms of sales tax, additive
sales taxes for investment zones for those towns. Ginny – Comment
– PIFs. Kevin – Comment – Yeah. It is high. You end up paying if
forgot but I did the math and I want to say we got something from
Scheels and it was over 10% tax because they tack on 3.5 or 4.5%. It
was high. I think there are some other unique areas to pull from to be
like quarter cent sales tax. You go over there and pay 3% extra and
funding the growth there versus funding here. If you don’t really look
you just move on with your day until your like could I do better.
• Danielle – Q – I know that other unnamed park systems in the United
States often run into budget shortfalls in part because the creation of
parks and maintenance of parks are two separate budget line items
and quite often it’s really politically viable to create new parks and not
politically viable to include the funding that’s required for the
maintenance and upkeep. This is something I know that we struggle
with quite a bit in the organization I work with and there’s been efforts
to try and require new parks to have maintenance dollars added in or
tacked on and I am just wondering how the City is dealing with these
similar issues. Ginny – A – A few different ways. One certainly we
recognize the two different funding sources. One is dedicated and
one is not. That adds to the problem. The dedicated source is through
our capital expansion fee so anytime new development goes in. I
think this year we have a fee study and one thing we are looking at is
expanding that definition of capital expansion fee because ultimately,
we’re going to build out to and then obviously parks are done being
built but they won’t be done being maintained. Is there a way with
infill or other types of development to use those expansion fees for
operation and maintenance. We are going to be looking at that as
one possibility to do that. You certainly see across the county parks
and/or recreation districts like the library became a district for that
exact reason. We try to not do that. You create yet another governing
body by doing that and we’d like to keep our parks and recreation
within our organization system but what you’ve described is exactly
right. Honoré – Comment – I have pulled the slide back up because
it’s pretty drastic. Ginny – Comment – Things are just expensive. I
look at that and I am like really, $1 million parking lot but yeah.
Danielle – Comment – Also struck by the irrigation systems too and
you know this is something we touch on quite a often and that’s the
number one priority here and Kentucky bluegrass. There are big
beautiful old trees there but it’s unfortunate to sometimes see these
decisions and values completely dissected and separated from the
other City values and plans. Where this is an opportunity to not just
improve a more water wise irrigation system but potentially convert to
more appropriate turf based on our climate here in Fort Collins. Ginny
– Comment – There are activities that are well loved that require turf
and we will always require turf and irrigation. Honoré – Comment – I
think turf conversion is a big priority at the same time, in appropriate
areas while maintaining fields. Ginny – Comment – We are going to
have baseball fields and flag football fields
• Honoré – Comment – City Council is meeting next Tuesday to talk
about this. That is the April 25th work session. Then they have
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another work session tentatively planned for June 13th which is where
I think staff was hoping to get final direction on if and what to bring
forward as ballot language. Then they have a July 25th meeting
planned to finalize the ballot language before an August regular
meeting to adopt ballot language. Then at that point if any tax is going
to be put on the ballot it goes through a TABOR Review (Taxpayer
Bill of Rights) in Colorado to meet the deadlines to be on a ballot by
November. So, I think if NRAB wanted to weigh in, take action, or
offer any advice probably that June work session might be best for
between now and then based on what you hear from Council next
week.
• Matt – Q – Does staff have a recommended approach yet? Ginny – A
– Not yet, other than I believe staff would say we don’t think the large
emitter fee is a great idea. I think we would recommend being
judicious in number of measures to put on a ballot and I think we
would prefer a sales tax over the occupation tax, but I don’t know.
Matt – Q – In terms of what is a little bit easier to digest for the voters
or is acceptable. Ginny – A – Yeah, and again spreading out that
sales tax around.
• Matt – Q – Has the large emitter situation been put on the table in
front of Broadcom? Honoré – A – Yes, that has been part of the
conversation since fall of 2021 when this conversation began with
Council Finance and actually started as a large emitter fee. Then
because of the difficulty of demonstrating a direct benefit to the fee
payer, it was recognized that it needed to go away. Then a
suggestion from a community group pushed it forward again on to
Council Finance and said what if it was a tax because it gives you
more flexibility and usage. So, it came back again. This time staff has
done a lot of due diligence and research. There are a lot of variables
including what you could charge right now, that’s $51 per ton based
on the federal social cost of carbon. That could increase under the
Biden Administration but that’s a very political decision. Under the
Trump Administration it was like $1 or $5 per carbon metric ton and
the Biden Administration has floated a $191. There’s also question on
whether you should charge it on the entire inventory of emission per
entity or only on the net emissions above the 25,000 metric reporting
threshold because anyone underneath that reporting threshold
essentially gets a free pass. There’s a lot of various considerations
and there are some legal dimensions that Council is wading through
with their legal counsel. That Is a tricky one and Broadcom and
Anheuser-Busch are not excited about it.
• Lisa – Q – Is there any threat from them of moving out of our area if it
got imposed? Honoré – A – I haven’t heard that but what we do know
is that they are making strides and we’ve got some graphs in the full
slide deck that show the rapid decline of their emissions overtime and
their public commitments to be under that reporting threshold.
Broadcom’s is in the next five years and Anheuser-Busch by 2030.
They have said that additional taxes could impact their ability to put
funds into emission abatement technology. Anheuser-Busch gave us
a number that said if they were taxed that $2 million a year which is
what this is projected to cost them if you charge them the full
admission portfolio, that $2 million equates to between 15-20 jobs at
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their factory. Not that they were threatening to lay off people but that
is what it equates to and then what do we do as an organization with
that tax revenue? Do we put it in the e-bike rebates. Kevin – Q – Is
that better than them just reducing more? Honoré – Comment –
Sorry to keep going on this one but there have been some questions
raised in the Council Finance Committee at least which is just a
subset of the full Council around the credibility of their commitments
and correctly reporting. So, there’s some reflection of community
mistrust of large multinationals that we’ve heard as well.
• Kevin – Comment – I was going to say on the sales tax, I do like that
because of the visitor subsidy opportunity there. Not only because
great they will also pay but because there are more emissions when
people come and visit. Not to say we don’t want to promote that and
its minimal difference over the course of a general stay, I would
imagine, but they are from a pure mission and carbon standpoint.
That’s just the reality and so I feel like there’s a reasonable tie in
there. Ginny – Comment – And if they were dedicated, which I think
it would be, I would just reiterate that it doesn’t apply to groceries. We
try to maintain some equity in that space as well.
• Lisa – Q – Does anyone know what the sales tax rate is not in Fort
Collins for just buying a sweater or something? Ginny – A – Your city
portion would be 3.85 but you are going to see more because the
County also has some in there as well, but our collection is 3.85.
• Kevin – Q – On big move number four the Active Modes Plan, that
$1.5 million, do you know the source of that and what it represents. It
seems low to me. Honoré – A – I asked FC Moves folks and that is
still sort of preliminary. We are trying to put forward some specificity
that Council and community have asked for so that they can get an
idea of what funds could be used for but not tying in new revenue
directly to exact activities in a way that would limit flexibility. So, what
FC moves provided was some sort of near-term investment in stuff
like new bike facilities and e-bike rebates and all sorts of things at a
scale that would be about accelerating existing programs. Then on
the transformation call, that’s when you see the full active modes
investments and that number is over 100 million, around 116 million.
We are not slapping $116 million on the screen. Just saying here are
some investments that could be done in the short term that would
help. Kevin – Q – That is short term manual for like 2024 or
something like that. Honoré – A – Yes, Cortney Geary said that $1.5
Million a year could help scale and accelerate existing strategies and
that at the transformational level, that is where you get into much
higher investments needed. Kevin – Q – When and how does that
transformational level get articulated because I think of the things in
the plan that was adopted is the language around funding the plan
equivalent ot the goal and if I look at the $1.5 million compared to the
overall streets budget, I don’t think we are funding the plan towards
the goal without doing transformational stuff. It’s just blinking down
there as a tiny thing still and I feel like that was the idea with the plan.
Honore – A – This whole conversation around sustainable revenue
for deferred maintenance started around parks deficit as laid out in
the Parks and Rec Master Plan that was developed a couple of years
ago, based on the deficits identified in the Housing Strategic Plan and
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in the Transit Master plan. Those were a big glaring light that have
been on the radar for years. The Active Modes Plan came up a little
more recently and so it hasn’t been featured in the conversations at
the same degree. Where we pulled it in is through that lens of the
climate umbrella and saying okay if you look at climate its not just
about emissions free buildings. That is a huge part of it but we’ve
looked t the whole array and so that’s why I’m personally excited
we’ve been able to use that big moves framing to talk more about it.
Kevin – Comment – I agree with that but I’ll keep calling it out. I just
feel like we can’t achieve that goal if we don’t start spending bigger to
make a different experience to use active modes in the community.
$1.5 million gets you a couple more separated bike lanes on a couple
streets and that is great but its going to affect a very small number of
people and how they behave and experience that.
• Honoré – Comment – So what Denver has done with their quarter
cent sales tax is have some really clear allowable uses, six specific
buckets with a focus on equity and that allows enough flexibility and
specificity that voters are like yes these are our priorities.
Transportation and active modes is one of those. To Ginny’s point
earlier that maybe years where whatever sustainable revenue is
coming in underneath that umbrella needs to all go towards transit in
order to get some big matching dollars from some big federal grants
and in another year maybe there’s a really great opportunity around
active modes. It could take a larger chunk of it. It is not perfectly
defined ahead of time.
• Ginny – Comment – The other thing I would throw out is this
timeframe. I said this last time is that it’s a very short window for what
we typically do so it’s great to be able to come and talk to you about it
because you know we’re talking about it but we don’t know what it is
yet and by the time we know what it is, we’re not going to be able to
talk about it. So, it’s good to shar the knowledge as much as possible
when and if it comes forward so I appreciate it.
c. 1041 Regulations Update – Barry Noon (NRAB Representative to the 1041
Regulations Committee) provided an update memo for NRAB in the April
meeting packet. The memo includes information on the state of the Draft 1041
Regulations, upcoming timeline for City Council, and perspectives from the
1041 Regulations Committee. Barry requested NRAB input, comment, and
decision about whether a memo to the Mayor and City Council is appropriate.
(Discussion with possible Action)
• Discussion | Q + A
• Lisa – Q – Is the Northern Integrated Supply Project the Thornton
Water Project? Bryan – A – No it is instructing the Glade reservoir,
which would be Northwest of town that would flip part of 287. Matt –
Comment – But it will deliver water down to that area through the
pipeline. Lisa – Q – So it is related to the Thornton project? Matt –
The pipeline delivery system will head to the South that way.
Thornton is one of the participants but there are several including the
Cities of Mead and Erie. Bryan – Comment – But Thornton has its
own system that they are also trying to construct right now. Honoré –
Comment – Larimer County denied them the privilege.
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• Dawson – Q – I have a procedural question timeline wise. County
and I were chatting and know that the first reading of 1041
regulations is May 2nd. So, I am just thinking from a purpose of Barry
reaching out and thinking about this potentially putting in point of
action for a memo would be created by this Board regarding 1041
regulations and this here. Is it significant and important for that
memo, if the Board decides to do so, to happen before the first
reading? Honoré – A – From a procedural standpoint, if this Board
wanted to submit something in time to be include in the packets that
go out, they are published next Thursday, the 27th. So, the deadline
would probably be Wednesday the 26th by noon. Then If that was too
tight of a timeframe or you wanted to wait and see what happened
after the first reading, what I have heard is it is going to be a longer
than the typical two week period between 1st and 2nd reading. I don’t
want to say 100% but I don’t think 2nd reading will be May 18th and it
will be a longer timeframe. It is possible that if that is the case, then
the next possible regular meeting for a 2nd reading is two weeks out
from there, which would be the beginning of June. You could revisit
this at your May meeting and decide if you wanted to submit
something prior to the second reading. Dawson – Comment – The
reason I do bridge that is simply because I know there is a lot of
information here and I also know there are newer folks to the Board
that maybe, whatever familiarity exists and this, which is a lot. I by no
means am an expert on it and could do research myself but I just
wanted to understand timeline wise what we’re looking at and let that
also bridge the conversation.
• Kevin – Q – So what is the action again? Maybe I am less up to
speed on the actual, with regards to the context of the first reading as
related to the content here. A couple of upper points regarding state
interest and Honoré would you mind scrolling up to those two major
bulleted points. Are these points not being taken into account with
regards to the 1041 construct that would be what is expected in that
1st reading. Is this the deficiency? Matt – Comment – Because it lies
beyond city limits. Kevin – Comment – and so they are not exercising
those powers thus far. Bryan – A – The way they were being
proposed is it would be within the growth management area or
whatever Kirk Longstein said. Kelly – A – There was one with
geographic limitations and one without. Kirk and the team moved
forward with the one with limitations. I think Barry is a huge proponent
of without. Kevin – Comment – So Barry is basically saying space it.
Kelly – Comment – I thought Barry wanted to write a memo and I
don’t know if he is talking about this specifically but I don’t know if the
memo he is suggesting for us is to just advocate for no geographical
limits in general which would then impact this. I don’t know if we need
to be that specific. I guess that is the question.
• Dawson – Comment – I think this is where I am at and I am no legal
expert. I think Kirk and I am going to an email that was shared, and
we can share this email out but this happened right at the beginning
of this meeting that Kirk had some points for us to consider for
instance what is being proposed in this document. Lisa – Q – And this
one is from Barry? Dawson – A – Yes. *Dawson pulled up email from
Kirk*
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• Matt – Comment – Just jumping back to the memo while he is pulling
up the email, that final mic drop sentence of the memo, we strongly
suggest the City invokes its 1041 powers and deny approval of NISP.
I understand what’s behind that for Barry and I wish he was here to
discuss. I don’t know what that creates in terms of legal issues. Does
that mean the town of Mead and Thornton and all these people say
we are going to now sue the City of Fort Collins. I don’t know what
the consequences are of that and maybe some would say down the
torpedoes that’s coming though. Dawson – Comment – I think some
of this is speaking to what you are saying.
• Honoré – Comment – I was going to highlight this one. At this point
City leadership is not intending to regulate activities outside of City
limits. However, if Council wishes to direct staff to re-evaluate that
position a future work session is suggested for the parameters, how
this policy should be applied to code. So, to your point, Kevin, where
are things now and what is the potential influence? I would say if this
Board wanted to strongly align with Barry’s position and suggest that
they take up this, I think that could potentially have impact there. I
think some of the other things that Kirk shared are also important to
consider. I think one thing you said he said here is after the code is
adopted that 1st reading that is coming up May 2nd and then the 2nd
reading which likely wont be until June, there is still opportunity for
groups that want a different angle to lobby and do so during phase II
of the code. This one I get out of my depth because he has slides that
we have seen a few times. I just don’t have them memorized. Then
here's the earlier part that I think you were also going to speak to.
• Dawson – Q – What is CAO? Honoré – A – City Attorney’s Office.
• Lisa – Q – So that memo that we were just looking at, whoever wrote
this (email) is sort of assuming that came from this Board? Honoré –
A – Kirk knows Barry very well because Barry is the one who is
liaising to that group. Kirk knows this board is considering Barry’s
proposal and he has reviewed it.
• Kevin – Q – So do we have the background, or do any of us recall if
we have it as to why Council has decided to direct them to not pursue
the avenue of evaluating areas outside the City limits as part of the
regulations that are ultimately adopted at that point? Dawson – A –
Again I am not a legal expert here but the reference point to the very
top of how, what we are proposing here has not been tested in court.
I was under the impression from my meetings and the 1041
Regulations that it is in the municipalities that have utilized this within
that in term so if internally looked at and have been able to control
regulations legislation towards that. It is that external look of going
outside the scope of authority. That is really the question here but
again this is me. Kevin – I don’t think we have talked about this in the
past. I don’t feel like we need to be the legal expert. It is more if we
bounce something back to Council and say we urge Council to re-
evaluate the opportunity to regulate things outside the City that will
clearly affect the City based on this potential. We are not putting
ourselves or the City at legal risk because that’s everybody else’s role
in either deciding to do that or not, then when to do it, and how the
City Attorney’s looks at it. I don’t feel like any of us need to think
that’s more. Do we think there is a potential gap here, where they are
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04/19/2023 – MINUTES
missing the board and we, as the sustainability environmentally
focused forward need to push on that just to make sure that is being
looked at right. I don’t want us to get bogged down. At least
personally, I don’t want us to because we are not going know it.
There is no way we are ever going to be the legal person. It is hard to
keep track of just the basics of this one. Without Barry here, I don’t
know what he called out as far as the items that seem to be in place
to say we do the City have that ability. I guess from my standpoint
based on knowing this, what would be the downside of asking
Council to re-evaluate that based on the potential effect to try to
somehow stop the missed piece straight at 1041 and say we know
things that happen outside or impact our important facilities,
infrastructure, wildlife, whatever. So just asking. Matt – Comment –
Like a cost benefit analysis of what that would look like. Kevin –
Comment – yes ask please evaluate that and they can say we got
this memo, we are going to do something with it, we are not, or Kirk
help us through what is going on. I don’t know, that is my two cents. It
is easy to get lost in the details. It is way past us in some ways but I
feel like just being that back stop.
• Honoré – Comment – I wanted to point out this is one of the
attachments he sent along. This is a public memo from last week to
City Council related to 1041 Regulation decision points. I’ll just skip
down to decision point three which seems to be the one that is the
focus of this memo. Update review standards to account for
construction activities outside the jurisdiction. So, this is on the table
for discussion that Council could redirect. Add a common review
standard that analyzes activities causing an adverse impact on Fort
Collins Property regardless of where the construction takes place.
Kevin – Comment – One thing we could do is express, we support
evaluating those review standards based on potential impacts to
some of the areas. We don’t have to get that specific but some
general areas that we know could and that just reiterates. They get all
this stuff, and they get a memo and then say okay I have to look back
at this now.
• Matt – Q – Could we have a copy of this to review in case there is
anything besides decision point three we might also say this Board
supports that as well. Honoré – A – Yes, it is a public memo.
• Matt – Q – Who was it sent to and from whom? Honoré – A – Sent to
City Council from Kirk Longstein. Matt – Q – So staff to Council but
based on feedback that staff received thought these engagement
processes. Honoré – A – That is what it seems to be and then also
reflecting a response from a previous work session in February.
• *Dawson will forward email from Kirk to Board along with its
attachments*
• Matt – Comment – If we were to act it would have to be by next
Wednesday. Honoré – Comment – Not necessarily. If you wanted to
get a memorandum in the full packet that goes out in advance of the
regular meeting it would need to be in by next Wednesday. You can
always send something after that date and then ask for that to get in
front of Council that they will read before in a packet that goes out on
Tuesdays. It doesn’t necessarily have as much impact as something
that’s considered alongside all the other materials that come from that
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04/19/2023 – MINUTES
item. Then as I mentioned there is probably going to be more than a
typical two-week period between 1st and 2nd reading. So, there could
be an opportunity to influence after the May 2nd meeting but before
the 2nd reading, which I am assuming will happen in June. Kelly – Q –
So we could draft a memo and review it next meeting potentially as a
group and approve it in May? Honoré – A – with the caveat that it is
possible they would rush forward and do the 2nd reading back-to-
back.
• Kevin – Comment – I like having the earlier. It feels tough to get in
between for a second reading and feel like there’s an impact
opportunity to the same degree. So even if we don’t have the full
scale of maybe there are more things in there. There is the one call
out from an existing memo they’ve received that we can reiterate on
short and sweet to be like we believe this will be valuable now to take
action based on that item they have already seen. It’s just sort of re-
emphasizing. I guess that is where I a m at as far as I don’t like
waiting and being in between readings. It feels less impactful. Kelly –
Q – So you are saying you want it done by next week to get into the
packet? Kevin – A – That is kind of what I am exploring as a motion.
Just not trying to be comprehensive and perfect with every piece of
this but just pick one bullet item they’ve already been exposed to and
reiterate what we believe is the importance for evaluating that
opportunity. Nothing more, just generically reiterate that. Kelly – Q –
Is it less impact though if we don’t make that initial packet of
information and wait. Would we be better off waiting? Kevin – A –
The earlier we get it in, then we are part of the packet with the
content itself for this specific item. If we wait then we are sort of an
add on, like by the way look over here. It is a big of a disjointed piece
together. Honoré – Comment – Staff puts together these materials
that attend to the item for Council consideration and so when Dawson
sends that to City Council members and CC’s Kirk, it allows him to
make sure he includes that in the packet in the right spot so that it
can be considered as part of the discussion.
• Matt – Q – Can you scroll up to decision point two really quick. I hear
what you are saying Kevin I just want to do a quick scan. Kevin –
Comment – Good call.
• Matt – Q – So just again to say what I think you are saying Kevin. If
we were to say as a Board we, NRAB support decision point three.
Which supports City Council advising staff to re-evaluate decision
point three in this memo or we could not even call out the memo. Just
re-emphasize that point common review standard that analyzes
activities. Is that what you are suggesting as a motion? Kevin – A –
Yes and I am just looking at the language here too. So, add a
common review standard that analyzes activities causing adverse
impact on Fort Collins property regardless of where the construction
takes place. So, at this point, based on this language this is just like
the other ones. It is in there; it is not light language. It is in there
unless I am missing that.
• Lisa – Comment – I think if our memo references decision point three
it reinforces that notion. I like the idea of using that as a reference
point. Kevin – Comment – Or we say we applaud the inclusion of this
point. Not like it is in there I guess and that was something that this
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04/19/2023 – MINUTES
Board has discussed in the past and found it important for all these
reasons. But that does not mean it’s a sure thing in their mind. It is
being presented to them. It gives one more push to not let this go
away kind of thing or do due diligence with regards to those levels
that we don’t understand. I think it’s important.
• Kelly – Q – What did Kirk say, did he reference decision point three in
his email as well? Kevin – A – Yes but he didn’t know.
• Danielle – Comment – I think it’s a difficult situation and we wouldn’t
be in this situation if there hadn’t been other key interventions that
had been missed given other political environments and so I think
that’s an important thing to factor into. This is not the most sensible
way to deal with this issue, however give the other circumstances and
lack of climate factors being considered in other decision making
processes, it may be the best option.
• Kelly – Q – So that both there, it seems like they want to discuss it
but its not their intent so we should back up that decision? Kevin –
Yes
• Bryan – Q – What are the standards with that link 6.7? Honoré – A –
That links to the Land Use Code. It is a 50-page document. Bryan –
Comment – I am not saying we pull it up now but to review those
standards in a week seems hard to do. Kevin – Comment – I think
Barry and Dawson have been involved and been able to filter some of
this stuff for us to say what we think is either not covered or not
adequately covered. I think Barry is bubbling up the things he thinks
are substantial. I am sure we would applaud many of the details in
the Land Use Code but not miss the bigger items. I remember
reviewing some of this stuff and having been part of some of those
early discussions and there is some good stuff.
• Matt – Q – Does it have to be a memo. Couldn’t we reinstate from the
email from Kirk a few nuances for the Board to consider and then that
one decision point three however if Council wishes to direct staff to
re-evaluate that position a future work session is suggested to exploit
parameters. Could we not say the NRAB encourages Council to
direct staff to re-evaluate this position as stated in decision point
three of the attached memo and suggest a future work session be
dedicated to explore the parameters on this policy or something like
that. Would it have to be a memo? Honoré – A – So two ways it
typically goes through Council is either an abstract from minutes of
this conversation you are having right now or a memo. I say abstract
but an extraction. Like pulling a section of the discussion here tonight
and sending that along. Lisa – Comment – I think a memo would be
more focused. Kevin – Comment – I think a memo could be what you
just said a not longer. Honoré – Comment – A third option is a public
comment. So, one of you could appear at the Council meeting on
May 2nd and say I am representing NRAB and wanted to bring this
into conversation.
• Kelly – Q – So even if we drafted a memo we are not in the legality of
public visibility. Are we not able to? Dawson – Q – We would have to
do it right now right? Honoré – A – So this is a public meeting and so
you would have to act by vote saying you want to submit a memo,
make a motion, a match is shared and then that would allow the
creation of that memo to send off in the packets. Kevin – Comment –
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04/19/2023 – MINUTES
Without further review, especially if it is short and concise. Kelly – Q –
So we wouldn’t be able to do the Google Doc thing again where we
make edits? Kevin – A – I am saying we can get it done without
having to have another meeting to record.
• Matt – Comment – I just want to go down on record with you all that I
feel much more comfortable with that approach. I am supportive of it.
I am not at least at this time supportive of the last sentence in the
memo that says we believe we should deny. That is where I am
standing. Bryan – Comment – I agree. Kevin – Comment – If you
were able to restate what you just stated as a motion as content of
the memo to some degree, I would help support that.
• Matt motioned and Kelly seconded a motion to prepare a memo that
encourages Council to direct staff to re-evaluate the position as
presented in decision point three of Kirk Longstein’ s memo on April
13th for a future work session to explore the parameters on how the
policy should be applied to the code. Motion unanimously passes. 7-
0. Dawson will draft the memo and get it sent to City Council before
next Wednesday at noon.
8. BOARD MEMBER REPORTS
a. Bryan will be moving to California in June for work and will have to resign in
May. Kevin asked about his own resignation and quorum. Honoré stated they
have to have 5 members for quorum.
9. STAFF REPORTS
10. OTHER BUSINESS
a. Six Month Calendar Review
• May
• Julie P will be visiting
• ESD Background Overview
• Regional Water Update
• Advancing Transit Initiatives Update
• Kevin – Comment – I was exposed to a Council meeting about a
month and a half ago where a number of community groups came in
and testified related to those potential oil and gas standards. For
example, there was a mention of the lack of commitment to ongoing
monitoring and so forth. I was surprised to hear that. They were
advocating at that time that hos things were not part of the possible
standards. I guess it seemed like based on Council’s comments back
to those folks in the discussion or you know separated feedback as
they discussed it that there was more stuff going on than I feel like I
have been exposed to here. I think if everyone is interested just
making sure we are in the loop both from where they are at and what
the public feedback has been. Honoré – Comment – Oil and gas
standards have been led out jointly between Planning and
Development, Transportation, the Environmental Planning team led
by Kirk Longstein, Cassie Archuleta, our Air Quality Program
Manager, and then my department director Lindsay Ex. I can check
with them and see what might be good timing to bring you up to
speed on those conversations.
Page 17
04/19/2023 – MINUTES
• Other possible topics mentioned, discussed, or coming up for
Council: Land Use Code, sustainable revenue, oil and gas standards,
Economic Health Strategic Plan, Regional Water Update, and
Homelessness. Council will be taking a recess in June/July. NRAB
also discussed canceling a summer meeting for a social gathering.
• Dawson – Q – In reference to a point Noah brough up, the water
adequacy update. I saw that part of the Land Use Code. Could you
just inform my lack of knowledge on what that is. Honoré – I can
follow up on it. Matt – A – From listening to Noah it sounded like if
someone is thinking about building 100 new homes, they have to
show there is adequate water supply. That is the way I took it but
maybe more information would be helpful. Kelly – Comment – Or
even an accessory dwelling unit on the property. It can tie into your
house and I think that was part of it too, making it part of that
consideration. Bryan – Comment – He mentioned tab fees which are
part of that process that are typically some of the funding that
developers will pay to provide more water supplies, etc. Tab fees also
supply that stuff so if you are only budling an ADU onto a house,
there is already sort of existing infrastructure and theoretically you
could already search service that home but is that really true or not?
Is that adequate or not? I think that’s the question and they need to
model that out a little more. Do they have enough water supplies to
the infill kind of fill the demand?
•
11. ADJOURNMENT
a. (8:39pm)
Minutes approved by a vote of the Board/Commission on 5/17/23