HomeMy WebLinkAboutNatural Resources Advisory Board - Minutes - 04/20/2022
NATURAL RESOURCES ADVISORY BOARD
TYPE OF MEETING – REGULAR
April 20, 2022 6:00 – 8:00 pm
Via Zoom
04/20/2022 – MINUTES Page 1
CALL TO ORDER
6:02 pm
ROLL CALL
• List of Board Members Present –
− Barry Noon
− Dawson Metcalf - Chair
− Drew Derderian
− Hillary Mizia
− Victoria McKennan
− Kevin Krause- Vice Chair
− Avneesh Kumar
• List of Board Members Absent – Excused or Unexcused, if no contact with Chair
has been made
− Danielle Buttke
• List of Staff Members Present
− Honore Depew, Staff Liaison
− Dean Klingner
− Sylvia Tatman-Burruss
− Mariel Miller
− Eric Potyondy
− Marcus Coldiron
• List of Guests
− none
1. AGENDA REVIEW
a. No changes to agenda
2. PUBLIC PARTICIPATION - none
3. APPROVAL OF MINUTES – MARCH
a. Hillary moved and Drew seconded a motion to approve the February minutes with no
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changes. Motion passed unanimously. 5-0
4. NEW BUSINESS
a. Regional Transportation Update – Dean Klingner, Deputy Director of Planning
Development, and transportation (PDT), shared how Larimer County is gathering
input from local communities to help direct next steps for a regional transportation
solution. A May 24th Council work session is planned for this topic (Discussion).
− Discussion | Q + A
− Dawson – Q – In regard to the 50% leaving Fort Collins for work, how are we
thinking about this in context to this regional plan? Is 50% going to Loveland?
Dean – A – Loveland is the biggest one with Greeley, Boulder, and
Longmont. Maybe half of the 50% is going to Loveland. Generally thinking,
jobs and housing balance is one of the big strategies the City has. If you have
a household with multiple working partners, you are usually trying to decide
where to live and often end up in the middle, or one person commuting
regardless of your job/housing balance. Those things are driving it and as a
region grows, there are more options to work regionally so people are taking
advantage of that. There is no easy answer. There are lots of dynamics we
don’t control.
− Victoria – Q – In these conversations has the focus been primarily about
projects or is there conversations about the connects between land use and
transportation? Dean – A – I would say the most straight forward
conversation is the mix of projects. The perspective that Fort Collins brings is
how to bring multi-moto options to the region and connect them in that way. I
have talked about how land use connection must be part of the solution. As a
City employee one of the things we hear is the cost of housing in Fort Collins
is one of the drivers. Personally, I would caveat not just cost, but choice
around type of housing that you want. We haven’t had large lots for a long
time. That is certain draw in Timnath and Windsor. Land use is a driving part
of the problem, and it multiplies the complexity of collaboration around
agreeing on transportation solution. We also have a regional consistency
around land use too because all communities are at all different levels of their
growth journeys.
− Victoria – Q – Has there been conversations about where Larimer County
projects might fit into the Statewide Transportation Plan or is that down the
road? Dean – A – There is a lot of projects regionally that are on the
statewide transportation plan that are eligible for at least partial funding
through the state or local MPO. In the 2019 proposal there was a small
portion of the funding that was going towards a local contribution to, for
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example I-25. I-25 checks all the boxes and to every community is important.
There are some projects not on the state highway or not important regional
connections that are not on the statewide plan.
− Kevin– Q – In regard to the focus groups and everyone agreeing that
transportation is an issue that needs to be solved, do you have any more
idea on what that “solved” means to people? Dean – A – The short answer is
no but the theme coming out of them was that if you have lived in Fort Collins
for some time, you have seen a trajectory around transportation for things like
congestion, safety, or liability. In general, the biggest threat that ties the
region together is I-25. I think it trickles down and depends on what part of
town you live in. If you are not the 50% that leaves town, you might not see
this daily. If you are coming in or out of town on Harmony, Prospect,
Mulberry, or 392 you can expect significant congestion that has worsened
over time. There is a general perception that transportation infrastructure has
not kept up with the speed of growth. That would be what I have heard
people with a typical option around transportation. We have also received
significant feedback that our city transportation system could be more
frequent, could go more places, and have more protected bike lanes.
− Kevin – Q – Are they laser focused on their one issue or are they open
to ecologically minded solutions? Dean – A – I will say that was a
significant perspective that Fort Collins brought in 2018-2019 to try to
get that slice of the pie to be bigger for transit and that was relatively
successful. The City of Fort Collins is integral in starting a bunch of
regional routes to places like Greeley and Boulder as well as being a
stop for Bustang. EMP is looking at the following regional transit
routes: Windsor to Loveland, Greeley to Loveland, and Fort Collins to
Greeley. The less and less dense a community, the less transit will be
a solution. The routes can’t generate enough ridership or get close
enough to people. Fort Collins is built in a way that is a challenge from
a density point of view to have transit work. Communities like Timnath
and Windsor are not opposed to transportation but know it won’t make
much of a dent.
Dawson – Q – What boards do you see might be associated with this here in
Fort Collins and what are the potential avenues you see the Board playing a
positive impact in some of this going forward? Dean – A – I would say it
depends on what you think; that is your role as a board. It is great for us to
know how the community is reacting to this and I would go back from my
point of view is it is easy to say yes that Fort Collins wants to be a partner for
regional transportation solutions. That is easy and then it gets hard on what it
looks like and how we support it. Some of the questions you asked could lead
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to great feedback to is there a land use code that is part of this and how
much transit is a factor. I didn’t mention the regional trail projects like the
power trail that connects Loveland by going under Harmony. The two
questions are, should Fort Collins be an active partner, what does it look like
for Fort Collins to be a full supporter, and where does the revenue come
from. Feedback can be provided to Dean or Council as they are thinking
about it.
− Victoria – Q – Have committees like Red Feather Lakes Planning or
Committees in Laporte have similar presentations? Dean – A – I don’t know
as there is a large category of unincorporated Larimer county. I am not sure
how the county is handling communication around this to them. I would say
that for some of the communities there might be a project that is important to
them, but in general there wouldn’t be much change for folks that are further
out.
b. East Mulberry Area Potential Annexation Phasing Scenarios – Sylvia Tatman-
Burruss, policy and Project Manager, reviewed potential annexation phasing
scenarios for the East Mulberry enclave and gathered feedback regarding next steps
and further scenario refinement. An April 26 Council work session is planned for this
topic. (Discussion)
− Discussion | Q + A
− Dawson – Q –In regard to area five that already had housing partially
annexed, how did that come to be? Sylvia – A – That was kind of a complex
situation. Sometimes we have annexation occur through enclaves where it is
surrounded by city land. Some occur through development proposals, like
this one. This area was originally called Green Fields Land; it is a big area
that is planned in phases or development. That whole area was brough into
the City in the last couple of years. There are 1600 units of housing proposed
so that will change that area of town no matter what. It could create a lot of
new road infrastructure, broadband, and electric utilities for that area.
− Dawson – Q – Because of that potential growth in their plans, do you
think that would play a significant role in how Council could process
this as there will be an increase of growth in potential new voters and
people coming into that space? Sylvia – A – That is an interesting
question as that area builds out. As a large development those folks
could start say that they feel isolated out there because they don’t
have the connectivity, parks, etc. that the rest of the City has. It could
change the conversation I think Council priorities do change and shift
depending on what the community is interested in. There is also the
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Montava development planned to the North. That could bring
infrastructure and additional traffic which could lead to a conversation
around infrastructure that Larimer County, as a rural service provider
isn’t in the business of providing. That could also change the
conversation.
− Victoria – Q – As a planner for Larimer County, I am thinking about
development that could maybe get approved through Larimer County and
that feels like a missed opportunity. I am wondering as you are going through
his plan, is there any opportunity, while it is in-between phase of annexation
to empower or equip planners to have a review criteria for this section of land
that is kind of in the in-between? Is there anyway to include some more
language around buffering for natural resources? Sylvia – A – I think for right
now we have the 2002 existing area plan that is jointly adopted between City
and County. It is out of date. The City and County have goth updated land
use codes since then. I am hopeful that even if annexation doesn’t move
forward right now, that perhaps we can still update the plan. I think the City
has been working with a very willing County staff and there is a lot of
opportunity to partner and continue some really good work. I think we can
continue to work better once we have some direction. If Council says no, then
City and County can shift a little bit in approach to a partnership so that can
be structure a little differently.
− Victoria – Q Regarding new development triggering annexation, is the idea
that development might not be happening because there might be more
development opportunities if areas were already annexed with the City.
Sylvia – A – I think that is one of those things about modeling, is that you can
put assumptions in there and it may or may not come into fruition. The Green
Field is occurring, and they went through annexation anyway, so that is a little
up in the air. In some ways there may be a draw for undergrounded utilities
and broadband internet, but there may not be a lot of others. It is in proximity
to the City of Fort Collins already so is that already attractive enough to
developers? I think maybe that is a strong case and maybe it’s not. In the
model it is assumed it could help but not a huge deterrent to develop in or
around Fort Collins.
− Dawson – Q – It looks like the model included the wetland area by I-25, I am
not familiar with that space. Do you happen to know the state of it from the
County’s perspective on how it is currently being managed? Sylvia – A –
Right now there is a lot of significance to it that is year-round open, running,
and warm area that serves songbirds later into the year then other areas. It is
not terribly well managed. There is more cattail activity then desired. The City
did purchase a portion of area to start to look at preservation of the Cooper
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Slough, but that work is also slow and looking out long-term. I think there is
an interest from the City side for preservation and buffering that area to at
least keep it as it is. There are conversations with Green Fields development
to be a great management with storm water mitigation. There is different work
happening in different places and through annexation could be better
buffering and more resources. The County has tried to push for great buffers,
but it hasn’t been solidified as much in land use code as the City as it is just
different in municipalities.
− Barry – Q – In these annexation plans, what sort of constrains can the City
impose on allowable developments? Sylvia – A – Buffers from natural
features that exist in the area is one. It is not a knock on the County, just a
difference of jurisdiction control and their place on rural control. The City
master plan document is focused on increasing density and preserving some
natural and park areas. I would assume there would be great density along
East Mulberry and more residential development. This area is already mostly
developed. New development would occur in those areas that don’t have a
lot of development. Different standards for storm water mitigation, urban tree
standards, LID standards, water treatment, sign code, and esthetics. Barry –
So my perspective is that given it is currently mostly developed the
undeveloped plan greatly appreciates in its value for the provision of
environmental goods and services. The term undeveloped land often makes
me cringe because it is interpreted by so many as a lost opportunity to
increase the quantity of human life, which is different than quality. I think the
thing to recognize is the corridor is a horrible introduction to the City of Fort
Collins. It has already been so environmentally disrupted that the remaining
undeveloped area is greatly appreciated in its value not for development but
for protection. I am wondering if the City, County, or both is/are looking at
long term affects of covering the entire corridor with impervious surfaces.
Those aren’t just he obvious asphalt and cement, but the footprints of all
buildings so areas that used to support vegetation, support wildlife, capture
perceptions, restore ground water supplies, and purify water to run off to the
river are highly compromised. Are those discussions happening in your
group? Sylvia – I think there is a lot in that that is important. We talked a lot
with the storm water team about his area. Back in the 50s and 60s this area
was inexpensive due to its flooding, which we still deal with today.
Development that creates that impervious surface creates difficulty in runoff
and more issues in runoff to the Poudre River and Cooper Slough. We are
trying to be thoughtful in this area about development that could occur to look
at not creating more issues than there already. The City already purchased
one piece of land to preserve the Cooper Slough. There are other parcels we
are interested in purchasing, but we must have a willing seller. We are trying
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to be thoughtful about new development and how we can mitigate those
impacts in an area that has been used for industrial development and has
disrupted some of those natural features.
c. Graywater Ordinance – Considered board action to advise Council on a new local
graywater ordinance as required by the State to enable installations of graywater
system. April 11, 2022 memo to NRAB requesting a recommendation to the City
Council on this policy direction provided by Mariel Miller, Water Conservationist
Specialist. City Council will consider a Graywater Ordinance at its August 16th regular
meeting. (Action).
− Dawson – Q – Thinking about the timeline in August, in context to
development plans that are happening, is there any hope that these could
have impact on some larger future development plans? Mariel – A – There is
hope for that, but I have not heard of any developers being interested in
graywater to date. Marcus – I have not heard any interested developers in
graywater. This could have to do with the newness of it and maybe they don’t
know it is an option in the City of Fort Collins.
− Dawson – Q – Are there any plans for engagement around
development for this process? Mariel – A – Yes there is an extensive
newsletter with over 1000 builders and contractors who we have
messaged. We are targeting that group for the informational
stakeholders meeting we are holding in June. We will continue to do
more messaging as well.
− Barry – Q – In order to separate the various sources/streams of water use
what is the infrastructure requirements in term of plumbing for an individual
household that would separate graywater from water that would be used to
flush your toilet? Mariel – A – A potable back up system and dual plumbing
would be required. So, you are not only having a freshwater line with potable
drinking water coming to the toilet, but you would also have the graywater
line to each source. You would also have the 50-gallon storage tank and the
certified treatment system.
− Barry – Q – So this would be something that would occur at an
individual residence or business? Mariel – A – Correct.
− Barry – Q – So who bares the cost of doing that? Mariel – A – We
don’t have any funding mechanisms identified that the City would
provide or any rebate/incentive, so the cost would be barred by the
developer or whoever is responsible for paying for the development of
the property.
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− Barry – Q – Most developer would pass this cost on to the consumer,
correct? Mariel – A – I would assume so.
− Barry – Q – That seems like a huge barrier, who owns graywater?
Eric – A – All of the water in the state is owned by the state in an
abstract legal sense. It is owned by the state the entire time and
people acquire rights to use that water which are called water rights.
During the time that the city diverts water out of Horsetooth Reservoir
it is under our control. We control it and can use it under our water
rights, but it is owned by the state in an abstract state but while it is
diverted in our system and running through out treated delivery pipes,
through hoses, and back it is under our Fort Collins utilities’ purview.
Barry – That is counter to my understanding of individuals own water
rights. Eric – Yes, they own water rights. The water right is an abstract
legal right to use the water the State owns in a more abstract sense.
Barry – As an ecologist, I have been dealing with issues of keeping
water in rivers for some time and that is counter to my understanding.
If the City wanted to increase flows in the Poudre that requires them to
purchase right, they simply cannot say you need to leave more water.
Eric – We are saying the same thing. I heard the question as who
owns the water. I am making a distinction between owning the
physical thing that is water and the legal right to use the water. That is
a distinction the law draws. Barry – Can you give me an example
where the State has exercised this right to take away an individual’s
water rights in Colorado? Eric – I did not state they have the right to
take it away. The whole water rights legal system has been set up at
the beginning at the highest level in the country is when you have a
water system, that is in-between states, the states work out who gets
how much water from that source. Then within the state, the legal
theory is that the state owns the water, and they have the right to
decision on rights to use that water. In the State of Colorado, the
state’s ownership of water is an abstract concept because the
Colorado Constitution states that all citizens have the right to acquire
property rights to use that water. A lot of time people often say that
they own that water but really, they are talking about the right to use it.
I think we are saying the same thing, but regarding graywater, when it
comes to the homes of citizens and it being used, we need to make
sure that use is in conformance with our set of particular sets of water
rights. I think this is why we are trying to set up the system we are.
− Kevin – Q – What was the driver behind not being able to use graywater for
underground or drip irrigation, is it because they will use it out of the system?
Eric – A – Northern Water has a contract with the federal government that
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they are bound to on where they can allow people to use and reuse Colorado
Big Thompson Project (CBTP) water. Northern Water and the project are tied
at the hip because of these contractual agreements with the federal
government. In the 1930s when they built the project, they went to the federal
government and asked for money. The federal government in return said yes
but here is a contract with all these limitations. One limitation is the right to
reuse CBTP water. Use of graywater for irrigation outside of the actual
building looks more like reuse as opposed to cycling the water through. After
speaking to them, I don’t think the rule will be loosened up anytime soon.
Kevin – From a water conservation perspective it comes from the same
place, so having to pull more for irrigation is a hard pill to swallow. I am not
sure how to advocate that for being revisited. Knowing that and seeing it is
just for toilet flushing is good, and most of us support the opportunity to
reduce water use for that, but it feels hard from a City investment standpoint
because of all the other conservation projects. Financial motivation or
awarding citizens for making those changes seems more substantial
− Kevin – Q – What percentage of water can even be touched? Mariel –
A – 7-8% of annual water use per person if every time you flush the
toilet you use graywater.
− Kevin – Q – Since this would be mainly for new developments, can
you break it down to say we think that if some percentage of new
development added this that it would save this amount? I am a little
disheartened by it since its only toilet flushing; it seems so small. Eric
– A – I think there are lots of things we don’t know about the impacts
of graywater on the overall system. If you think of the river and greater
Fort Collins utilities system, even with water conservation, it can save
the amount that Fort Collins utilities would take off the Poudre River
and reservoir into its system. But you would have to do a model or
analysis that the water we did not divert is taken up by other ditches. It
could be complex depending on the area of study. Mariel - I think
highlighting the fact that getting an ordinance passed and having the
opportunity for this to happen. I think there are opportunities down the
road to find grant funding or incentives to make this a little more
desirable. Kevin – It is great groundwork
− Eric – I am going to comment on the question Avneesh asked in the chat
about the city doing the treatment to graywater for the public. That would
push it out of the graywater legal regium and into a separate regium. That is
something I have heard resurfaced here and there, but it is a reuse purple
pipe system.
− Kevin – It might be neat to see if there are any city facilities or public facilities
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that could be spearheads for this where there is a more significant amount of
usage.
Recommendation
− Dawson- I am in favor of writing a memo but wants to see how the rest of the
board feels
− Kevin agrees to support with the hope that it can be pioneered with the City if
it financially makes sense.
− Others agree with the sentiment that it might not be the most significant up
front but has potential to create more down the road.
− Hillary appreciates what Kevin said about how we can use this to make
bigger change and push it forward. Small steps are important and believes if
they do a memo, they should make sure to include that aspect of their
opinions.
− Kevin motions to write a memo in support of the policy implementation of
using graywater as defined for its uses and nodding to the opportunity for the
City to seek areas where that is most applicable to larger water saving
opportunities within that memo. Drew seconds. Motion passes 6-0-1.
− Barry is confused on the ownership of water since it is counter to the issues
he has worked on for years. He is in support of graywater but who owns the
water in its reuse and who is compensated monetarily for the reuse of that
water is a big open question he would like to see answered.
− Kevin – Q – Is your concern that there is a disconnect in their understanding
and misinterpretation in the context of graywater or otherwise water rights;
does that give you a pause or concern? Barry – I don’t claim to be a water
rights expert, but I have been involved in a lot of water related issues
throughout my career. Regarding Southwest Colorado, where they don’t have
enough water to plant their crops, if the state owns the water, how come they
can’t intervene? I have done a fair amount of work internationally and it
comes down to who owns the water. With the cost falling on the individual
households, that is a non-starter for me and is not going to happen. Kevin –
The question at this point is, is it worth having it in the code for the ability to
do this if you want to or if down the road there are grants or changes in
interpretation in use potentials that this be a possibility. That is what is in front
of us now. Right now, it is not possible, so that is what we are talking about
here, do we want that to be a possibility in code for that to even be a thought.
It could be picked up and hopefully increase momentum in a case that water
continues to become more and more scarce. That those saved water gallons
by the small number will be increased to a larger opportunity overtime.
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− Barry changes his mind in support of the memo vs abstaining.
− Drew suggests that they could add a motion to included some of the
language in the memo to the City Council regarding all particulars being
discussed, water rights, and how we hope in the future specific elements can
be changed.
− Kevin – It feels like one of the opportunities is to advocate for use beyond
flushing and make a request that the City to its best of its ability advocates at
a higher level to expand definition of use and reuse.
− Barry is going to do more research on water law.
− The board is going to refer to Danielle’s expertise on graywater to help write
the memo as they have until August.
− Drew motions to amend the memo to City Council regarding graywater to
include points in content being more impactful. Kevin seconds. Unanimously
passes 7-0.
5. OTHER BUSINESS
a. Board Member Reports
− Barry – Barry approached Lisa with Rights of Nature group to present during
the public participation.
− Kevin – Bicycle advisory committee met last month. They spoke about the
new safety stop state law that makes it legal for bicycles to not come to a full
stop at stop signs when it is deemed safe, and no other users are at
intersection. The legislative committee at the City decided not so to support it
even after they wrote a memo to them. This law is good for under-
represented groups that may end up discriminated against when getting
pulled over for something like that. They also discussed budgeting for
outcomes, how it comes into play with the active mode budget offers, and
how they can tee up some larger incentive items to promote multi-moto for
Council. They are hoping to see of that related to Vision Zero. Draft bicycle
networks recommendations are now closed for input but feel free to reach out
to the team for opportunities in the city.
b. Six Month Calendar Review
− The Board discussed the option to have an in-person board meeting as it
would be nice to meet everyone in person but for environmental reason go
back to virtual meetings after. They decided on an in-person meeting for their
May 18th Board meeting.
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− Board members looked at upcoming subjects through the summer. There
was interest shown in land use code, trash/recycling contracting, active
modes plan draft recommendations, Halligan water supply project update,
and budget review.
6. ADJOURN - 8:36 pm